Rohloff hub conversion to belt drive, what tools required, anyone done it?

[roll off]

Hello
I've recently completed building a belt drive frame with stainless steel paragon adjustable dropouts. I'm going to install a Rohloff hub with belt drive but cant find any info on how to convert a regular Rohloff chain cog hub to the belt cog. I did read the Rohloff manual but other than quoting the M46x6 carrier and some tool references I can't find any photos or anyone thats actually done it.
Unfortunately Rohloff Europe has some silly rules regarding buying their hub with the belt drive carrier/cog installed and not one dealer in all of europe I've contacted is able to sell it unless its going on an "approved frame". Thankfully lots of internet searching will find you a dealer willing to sell the kit which I have on order.
I'd still like to know how to convert a regular Rohloff hub to belt drive without having to deal with Rohloff corporate if possible. Someone must have done it by now. The cogs (front and rear) and belt are all easily bought but not the hub with the cog installed.

- Has anyone actually converted a regular chain cog Rohloff to belt drive?
if so...
- what tools did you use, did you buy the Rohloff tool, (need pics etc)
- Where did you buy the carrier? doesnt anyone make a independent version?

Phil Woods manufactured a belt cog but not in production anymore and you still needed the carrier I believe.
http://www.philwood.com/products/bdrive/bdcogs.php

Thankfully Conti-drive is coming out soon, I wonder how they'll incorporate the Rohloff hub and the rear cog. Hopefully they make it a simple DIY

Thanks

[Danneaux]

Hi Roll'!

Welcome to the Thorn Cycling Forums!

First off, congratulations on your new frame. As a hobbyist builder myself, I know the thrill that comes with seeing your own dreams and vision brought to life with torch and welder.

As for your desire to convert a chain-drive Rohloff hub to belt-compatibility...I have looked myself out of curiosity and also found a dearth of information. You've done well to source the conversion parts. Lacking any formal directions, I would assume the basic procedure would be the same as replacing the chain-drive driver assembly and associated parts per usual, but using the belt-specific components.

Phil Woods manufactured a belt cog but not in production anymore and you still needed the carrier I believe.
http://www.philwood.com/products/bdrive/bdcogs.php

If my memory from a long-ago bike show serves correctly, Phil Wood made the carrier available with the belt cog; the carrier replaced the standard chain-drive cog, and the belt-cog simply bolted to it, making conversion a much more straightforward process. Unfortunately, they do indeed seem to be no longer available, judging by their absence from the Phil online store. Perhaps a query might result in the possibility of a one-off, though probably unneeded where you have the Rohloff OEM parts already on the way.

Thorn's long and successful experience designing their bikes specifically for Rohloff drivetrains makes them an authority on the hub, but Thorn have also decided against belt drive for a variety of reasons detailed in designer Andy Blance's "Living with a Rohloff" publication, see pages 22-23 of the latest edition, available here: http://www.sjscycles.com/thornpdf/ThornLivingWithARohloff.pdf

If I were in your position, I think I'd review the hub assembly and service instructions and then view it as a parts swap. Another course might be to contact CycleMonkey ( http://www.cyclemonkey.com/ ) or Aaron's Bicycle Repair, Inc ( http://www.rideyourbike.com/ ) to see if they might offer advice, suggestions, or instructions. A photo on Aaron's site ( http://www.rideyourbike.com/internalgears.shtml ) does show a belt-drive Rohloff wheel boxed for shipping, so it seems they have some experience with them, and they do offer some non-standard services, like re-drilling Rohloffs for 48 spokes (a procedure adapted, I believe, from the original efforts pioneered by Andre's friend, Chalo Colina -- himself a remarkable machinist). Either shop might have more interest if you present yourself as the framebuilder who is seeking details on the procedure for your own OEM self-build.

Though this is not the specific help you sought, hopefully something in it will be helpful toward assembling the hub as you wish for your Dream Bike.

Best,

Dan.

[Andre Jute]

Dan, you're the man, the firstest with the mostest. I just breezed in from checking that Aaron is still in business, and whether Phil still lists the drum and adaptor for the Rohloff sprocket thread, intending to connect Roll, and you've already sent a comprehensive answer!

Aaron's is pretty remarkable too. This for instance,
"Shimano IM-70-R Roller Brake.
Improved brake shoes and heat sink / cooling fins"
is an outrageous excess. I have Shimano IM70 roller brakes on my Smover  --  http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGsmover.html -- and they're sharper and more powerful than good discs already, super brakes on my fast downhills, but they have to be treated with respect at low speed in traffic or they'll pitch you over the handlebars. Whoever decided they needed to be improved must be a maniacal speed freak living up that mountain in Montana that goes downhill forever.

***

Roll, I like the sound of a stainless bike you built yourself. Did you braze it or weld it? Any chance of posting a few photographs?

[Danneaux]

Dan, you're the man, the firstest with the mostest.

Any chance of posting a few photographs?

Or even better -- a link to the complete build with story and photos.

Best,

Dan.

[capnahab]

I have a bike with the Phil Wood carrier (when they sold it )
http://www.flickr.com/photos/eldooderino/7871605154/
it was put on by the builders and has possibly invalidated the Rohloff warranty but heyho.

I have one with the Rohloff version
http://www.flickr.com/photos/eldooderino/8108647778/
, wheel had to go to Rohloff and be fitted , but I have retained my warranty.

I think the Rohloff one is better. You have to be very careful about matching your cog size to your chainring size to your belt length. Good luck , its a fiddly business. I think it is in the end worth it. There's way less muck. The chainline is important.

[capnahab]

Heres the tools you will need for the carrier.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/eldooderino/10116450606/

[roll off]

Or even better -- a link to the complete build with story and photos.

Best,

Dan.

Thanks everyone for the tips and links. I'll certainly try to put together a build list with some photos etc... Still receiving all the bits and pieces and the frame/fork need some painting.

- The frame is lugged silver brazed btw

[roll off]

Heres the tools you will need for the carrier.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/eldooderino/10116450606/

Thanks,
I'm guessing that the Rohloff tool is common to chain and carrier then by the looks of it (but never actually done it...) and the Phil tool is unique and specific to the Phil rear cog?

I have ordered a Rohloff hub with a 22 rear already installed but I would still like to know how to do it myself for the next hub before I put out the $ for a regular chain cog Rohloff.
Nice pics on your flicker page! some impressive stuff... all your own work?

[NZPeterG]

Hi All well belt drive sound great! but there is more to it them just finding  spockets for the belt)?
On all motorcycles with belt drive (watch there have been a load but not for a number of years) you have to have move bearings to take the loading (no freeplay like a chain) always under load!
Some you need more bearings ie: two on the drive side of your cranks, and better (higher loading) bearings in your rear hub! Yes you have a Rohloff hub so its bearings will die over a shorter time then on a Rohlodf hub with chain drive.

You also need a very strong chain stay on the drive side to stop it flexing! Belts do not like side ways flex on Spot bicycles the belts have been knowing to come off because of this..

Good Luck!

Pete..

[il padrone]

I think it is in the end worth it. There's way less muck.

One way to achieve this.

[capnahab]

'Some you need more bearings ie: two on the drive side of your cranks, and better (higher loading) bearings in your rear hub! Yes you have a Rohloff hub so its bearings will die over a shorter time then on a Rohlodf hub with chain drive.'

hmmm,  theres a bit of a difference between the torque from my legs and a 800 cc BMW engine. What stresses do you feel will wreck the bearings ?.

[NZPeterG]

Three is more too it!

With a chain you have freeplay, but with a Belt you have only Tension! and a load of it.

This is why Rohloff have rules with belt drive and there Hubs, you run lower tension and need a pulley/small wheel to hold the belt onto the sprocket. this is to stop the belt slipping over the sprocket which is why the need if the high tension in the 1st place.

There is also whey only a few motorcycles have belt drives know a days

But in the anyone reading about will know more then me, I have only 30 plus years as a Motorcycle Tech working not only in New Zealand but Europe too.

Plus I how work full time as a Bicycle Tech (my dream job)

Pete

[energyman]

You also need a very strong chain stay on the drive side to stop it flexing! Belts do not like side ways flex on Spot bicycles the belts have been knowing to come off because of this..

Good Luck!

Pete..

It is the first time I've heard of this, now I'm worried as I have a Spot Acne.  So far nothing untoward has happened.
Any UK SPOT owners had it happen to them ? 

[capnahab]

I dont think you need to worry about your belt drive. Theres plenty of slack in mine, actually I have taken the 'snubber; off. It wasnt doing anything and the belt has never jumped. Theres just as much slack in the belt as in a chain. Maybe that motobikes need more tension.

[NZPeterG]

Read up on belt adjustment!

Pete...