Factory lube/chaincase experiment (X8 chain, Chainglider, Surly SS & Rohloff)

[Andre Jute]

It's becoming pretty clear that my Chainglider/Surly SS/KMC X8 setup is an economy measure! Yeah, I know... On my previous setups, whether open derailleur or cased chain hub gearbox bikes, I would go through three cheap chains and Nexus cranksets and Shimano sprockets in the 4605km my first KMC X8 lasted, with no noticeable wear to the Rohloff sprocket or the steel chain wheel. So, because I'm heavy on transmission gear, even though my motive wasn't saving money but convenience, I'm ahead under 5000km. (In part because I bought a batch of KMC X8 at a deep discount CRC sale for just about the same as cheap Shimano/SRAM chains had previously cost me.) I would expect the rest of you, who're all apparently lighter on your transmissions than me, to see financial advantage in a Chainglider at around 10,000km.

My experience leads me to conclude that it wouldn't be smart to cheapen your chain or chainring when you buy a Chainglider. The better the gear that you cover up, the greater the benefit. Bit counterintuitive, but I think the soft Nexus ali was grinding away fast enough to destroy the cheap chains I had, even inside the Dutch chain cases, whereas my current Surly stainless steel chain works much more happily with the quality steel of the KMC chain. There's less to grind internally, and very little gets in from outside through the Chainglider's defences.

In this perspective the Chainglider is starting to seem like a bargain.

Andre Jute

[martinf]

Due to starting a new and demanding job in January, not had much time to use my Thorn with the Chainglider.

But my old 5-speed bike with Chainglider, used in all weather for shopping, local trips, etc., hasn't needed any maintenance at all for 9 months. This is a non-optimal setup, 1/8 inch chain, so thicker rear sprocket, TA 1/8 inch chainring slightly too thick for the Chainglider, and all the transmission parts already well worn.

So I expect the Thorn to do even better, with stainless steel chainring and new 3/32 inch transmission.

Using just the factory lube on a derailleur bike, I got good trouble-free service for the first few hundred kilometres during my 2011 Spain trip, so long as I was riding on tarmac roads in good weather. This changed as soon as I had a bit of rain and started using unsealed tracks.

[julk]

Dan,
I hope Hebie do the decent thing and extend the size range to include 36 chainrings.

I forgot to mention pleasure at the lack of mucky chain maintenance - the original reason I think that Andre started his experiment.

An added benefit is the covered chain means that putting the bike in a car or accidentally dropping your favourite garment on the chain has fewer drawbacks.
Julian.

[geocycle]

Ok you chain case specialists, I'm considering taking the plunge next time I renew the transmission. I found that replacing chain every 5000 miles and sprocket and chain ring every 10,000 miles seems to be an economical way of operating  I'm thinking of a 38 x 16 setup to match the hebie.  Has a concensus emerged on chain ring type and chain type to fit the chain glider?

[martinf]

Has a concensus emerged on chain ring type and chain type to fit the chain glider?

On the Thorn, I have a Surly stainless steel chain ring. Thinner than most alloy rings, so rubs less on the Chainglider. This is combined with a SRAM PC890 8-speed chain, but I think any 3/32" chain should work OK.

On my old 5-speed hub bike I have non-optimal thicker TA alloy ring and wider 1/8" chain. This rubs a little (small noise if I remember to listen out for it) but is acceptable (for me). I reckon the chainring and Chainglider will eventually each wear a little over time. Actual friction seems to be pretty negligible.

[Andre Jute]

Ok you chain case specialists, I'm considering taking the plunge next time I renew the transmission. I found that replacing chain every 5000 miles and sprocket and chain ring every 10,000 miles seems to be an economical way of operating  I'm thinking of a 38 x 16 setup to match the hebie.  Has a concensus emerged on chain ring type and chain type to fit the chain glider?

38x16 is the lowest you can go in Chaingliders. If you're young, strong, fast, you may want to consider that there are other Hebie Chainglider sizes that work with the Rohloff rear end. All this ferment for a 36 tooth Chainglider is from overload tourers, old guys and so on. I use 38x16 but I'm old and live on a steep hill in very hilly countryside, and I spin out under 40kph. I don't mind sitting up coasting, but riders with roadie backgrounds may feel guilty if they're not pedaling to purpose. On the other hand, better to coast down the steepest hills than suffer the indignity of having to push. A Rohloff rider whose bike is set up right for his personal circumstances and geography and ambitions should never have to push!

It is a pity that the very desirable Thorn chainring, for which many here have already paid, is too thick to fit a Hebie. The Surly stainless chainring seems to be the best choice. It should last longer than even the best aluminium chainring; note that we don't know how much longer it will last yet, but by analogy with a steel chainring, I expect mine to outlast several ali chainrings, which will easily justify the extra cost. I bought mine simply as another step in developing an ultra-low maintenance, ultra-clean bike and am well pleased with it. So are the other riders here who've since bought the Surly.

I've been well pleased with the KMC X8 chain, which in combination with a first a chaincase and then steel and now stainless chainrings has progressively improved chain life by a multiple, whole factors, over the Shimano Nexus setups I used to be satisfied with. (Even at my mileages, that's a significant saving, recouping the cost of the fancier gear in about 5000km; for a heavy commuter with established procedures to enhance chain life (that is, the guys who get tremendously long chain life), the saving could be significant from the end of the first year forward.) The makers of my bike, Utopia of Germany, test everything; they are well pleased with the slightly cheaper KMC Z7 (the discounters' price for the X8 is often lower than the Z7). Some people here have gone the whole hog on KMC, and are trying the much more expensive X1, which is claimed by some to be a replacement for the obsolete Rohloff chains, which offered tremendous longevity.

Andre Jute

[geocycle]

Thanks Andre, I currently run a 40 x 16 which gives ratios I am happy with, but chain gliders only come for 40 or 38 tooth rings. On balance I would probably rather go down than up in gearing. I suppose I could use a bigger sprocket and go for 42 x 17?

[Andre Jute]

Thanks Andre, I currently run a 40 x 16 which gives ratios I am happy with, but chain gliders only come for 40 or 38 tooth rings. On balance I would probably rather go down than up in gearing. I suppose I could use a bigger sprocket and go for 42 x 17?

Go to my Bicycling page http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLING.html and you'll find that on the page reserved for an as yet unwritten Chainglider article I've put my gear-inch decision tree for the Rohloff/Chainglider combo. You can calculate from there by adjusting for your preferred cadence and chosen tyre circumference. Or, if you tell me your preferred cadence and the circumference of the tyre you use, I can make a table especially for your situation.

Andre Jute

[Danneaux]

Very nicely done, Andre, and a valuable resource thanks to your generosity; thank you!

Now...if only we had need for you to add resources for a 36x17. Hebie! Where's my 36T Chainglider? Rohloff says it's okay now!

Those of us with hummingbird cadences can simply double the speeds listed for each combo (120RPM vs. 60RPM); nice.

Best,

Dan.

[il padrone]

Thanks Andre, I currently run a 40 x 16 which gives ratios I am happy with, but chain gliders only come for 40 or 38 tooth rings. On balance I would probably rather go down than up in gearing. I suppose I could use a bigger sprocket and go for 42 x 17?

A 42x17 is a gnats willy away from the 40x16 you have now. On a direct drive 26" wheel - 65" compared to 64.2".


BTW, I am an overloaded tourer, trending much closer to the grey shade, and like to spin (90rpm sees me wanting to change down a gear) but I have no desire to use a 36t chainring. Crikey, I hit top gear at about 45kmh now and find that is fine.... a bit low for a gentle descending road with a strong tailwind but I can cope. 36t would see me spinning out at 35kmh !!

[Andre Jute]

Very nicely done, Andre, and a valuable resource thanks to your generosity; thank you!

Now...if only we had need for you to add resources for a 36x17. Hebie! Where's my 36T Chainglider? Rohloff says it's okay now!

Those of us with hummingbird cadences can simply double the speeds listed for each combo (120RPM vs. 60RPM); nice.

We'll wait for Geocycle to tell me his cadence and tyre circumference, and when I make a table for him, perhaps it will be a near generic 26in setup, or I can at that time make a more generic table for 559 touring tyres as well.

Or, as Il Padrone has just pointed out, you can make the decision based on the gear inches in the 1:1 gear, 11th gear. It answers the question: what do I want to pull on the flat?

Actually, there's a possibility, now permitted, that I don't have on my table: 38x17, because it was streng verboten when I made the original table from which I adapted a section for Geocycle.

Andre Jute

[geocycle]

Hi Andre, Thanks for your useful table.  I'm using 26" wheels with 26x1.6 Schwalbe marathon supreme tyres.  Circumference is 2010mm or 79.1 inches.  I have never measured my cadence but I guess about 70-80. 

[Andre Jute]

Hi Andre, Thanks for your useful table.  I'm using 26" wheels with 26x1.6 Schwalbe marathon supreme tyres.  Circumference is 2010mm or 79.1 inches.  I have never measured my cadence but I guess about 70-80.  

The table is now somewhat differently constructed to make it a bit easier to change the tyre diameter and cadence. http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLING.html There are two new tables, both for Schwalbe 26x1.6in tyres at cadences of 80 and 120rpm. Note that the 36T chainring rows are only for Dan, as there are no Chainglider components to suit. All the other combinations fit available Chaingliders and are at least notionally touring combos, though you should choose the biggest toothcount for the longest life.

Andre Jute

[Danneaux]

Note that the 36T chainring rows are only for Dan, as there are no Chainglider components to suit.

My! Thanks so much, Andre; I truly appreciate your thoughtfulness. What a very nice thing to do!

And, what a very valuable resource for all.

All the best,

Dan.

[geocycle]

Right, spent a pleasant hour fitting new rolhoff sprocket, surly chainwheel, new chain and a Hebie chainglider. All went very well, even taking the old sprocket off.  The chainglider needed no cutting and seems to be fairly smooth and properly fitted. I haven't had time for a ride yet but I think it's fine, just seemed a bit too easy!

Next weekend i will tackle the cabling.