Author Topic: Rohloff - What's YOUR Opinion ?  (Read 214905 times)

onmybike

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Re: Rohloff - What's YOUR Opinion ?
« Reply #180 on: August 18, 2020, 09:42:11 AM »
Please, some of you, remember to update this in the year 2047 or later,  when your Rohloff hubs are properly worn in.

Pavel, a couple of years ago I hosted a pair of German cyclists, both engineers if my memory serves me well. They were a few months into a tour on new bikes. Her's had his old hand-me-down Rohloff hub. His new bike had an 18 speed Pinion - the first time I'd seen one in the wild. Of course I had to ask how the Pinion compared. His answer was as deliberately precise as a stereotypical German engineer could deliver - "Ask me in five years". He knew the Pinion had a very high benchmark in Rohloff.

If I remember to track him down and ask, I'll report back on his findings three year's hence. Watch this thread.

Captain Bubble

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Re: Rohloff - What's YOUR Opinion ?
« Reply #181 on: December 17, 2020, 03:57:11 AM »
I have a Surly Troll with Rohloff for 5 years now. In this time I have made about 25k miles on it. I have second Rohloff hub with different size wheel which I use sometimes depending where and why I am riding. I have only changed chain once on the older Rohloff hub after many many thousands of miles. The cogs front and rear still look like new. I have not had to reverse them yet. I use a fully enclosed chain cover to keep muck off the chain and me. Cycling with a Rohloff hub is so easy and you have next to zero maintenance compared with more common derailleurs. I have saved quite a lot of money in not having to buy replacement chains or cassettes. degreaser and lube as I would have done if still riding derailleur bike. The gear change is effortless and precise. No more click click clack clack or whining when lube is washed off chain. The Rohloff makes cycling so much more enjoyable, perfect for every day riding and cycle touring. I like my Rohloff hubs so much.

steve216c

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Re: Rohloff - What's YOUR Opinion ?
« Reply #182 on: January 14, 2021, 11:32:09 AM »
During the initial lockdown I converted my tatty but still usable kiddie bike trailer into shopping trailer for which I have hitches on my 26" and 28" derailleur bikes. I've not bothered to try to attach to the Rohloff bike yet.

I only use the trailer/derailleur bikes for lugging the supermarket goodies every 2-3 weeks and you can be guaranteed to hear my cursing at any traffic lights I need to stop at as I will invariably have forgotten to change gears before stopping pedaling and then twiddled the gears while stationary (a-la-Rohloff) only to discover my mistake when trying to get going again!

How we Rohloff riders quickly forget how important planning ahead with shifting is when we are once again saddled on a derailleur bike.

Much the same is to be said for running maintenance. My teenage son is often asking me to look at why his gears aren't meshing quite right, or for me to adjust, clear, fix something related to his drive chain. I find myself looking for things to do on my Rohloff bike and its brilliant Magura rim brakes just for the sake of it as it needs so little in terms of adjusting or 'running repairs'.

I think I've become spoiled since riding a Rohloff. Once you've had Champagne, sparking wine never tastes quite as good  ::)

If only my bike shed were bigger on the inside...

energyman

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Re: Rohloff - What's YOUR Opinion ?
« Reply #183 on: January 14, 2021, 01:07:59 PM »
Best thing sinced sliced bread !

TerryField

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Re: Rohloff - What's YOUR Opinion ?
« Reply #184 on: October 19, 2021, 06:12:56 PM »
Rohloff is great for a big tourer like the Raven. Very difficult to damage, even if you drop it. Doesn't need adjustment in the way that a derailleur does. Ideal when you need reliability.
 
The great advantage, especially if you are fully loaded, is that if you stop in the wrong gear, you simply wind it round to the right gear and off you go.

Unless you are super strong and super powerful, the hub is more than capable of taking the strain - nothing to worry about.

SJS offer two front cogs, so if you want to lower the gearing, just swap the cog. i do it regularly depending if it is easy riding, or touring with a heavy load.

Downsides? Need to change the oil once a year - takes 15 minutes and dead easy. It sounds a bit noisy in gear seven, but above that it is almost silent and below seven, nothing more than a mild whirr! Weight is perhaps a bit more that a derailleur, but in the great scheme of things, hardly noticeable.

Would I go back to derailleur? Not on a big tourer ( I have a Mercury), but I enjoy the derailleur on the road bike.

For the Raven it is the ideal set up!

PRP

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Re: Rohloff - What's YOUR Opinion ?
« Reply #185 on: January 03, 2025, 10:58:02 PM »
IMHO, the biggest advantage of the rohloff is a stronger rear wheel , just so long as the build is A1.
The biggest disadvantage is lack of roadside repairabilty [ other than gear cable replacement ......& cable cutters are needed to get the cable length perfect, and i think precutting is very problematic as the ends need silver solder to stop fraying, and cable housing length is critical]
 With enough $$ being spent , a dished [derallieur transmission] rear wheel can be very adequatley durable/reliable with special attention to drive side spoke tension , and tension balance, plus the  necessary gear to replace a spoke.
The derallieur transmission , treated well, is very adequatley reliable, very repairable  just about anywhere.....spares needed, spare cable, ?spare rear derallieur depending on isolation. The negatives are minor compared to [unlikley] internal rolhoff failure

martinf

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Re: Rohloff - What's YOUR Opinion ?
« Reply #186 on: January 04, 2025, 08:11:20 AM »
For someone who lives in a place with a sometimes wet climate and who often rides in bad weather on roads with sand, mud or other debris (me in Brittany), in my opinion the advantages of hub gears over derailleurs are :

Lower maintenance.

The big one for me. This advantage can be increased further by using a chain protector (chaincase). I use Chaingliders on all the compatible family bikes.

A clean, well lubricated and (reasonably) unworn derailleur system will mostly be more efficient than a hub gear setup, even a Rohloff. But in my experience, not all that much more. And after a few rides in unfavourable conditions, a hub gear with protected chain will feel more efficient.

When I used derailleurs I cleaned the transmission at between 200 and 700 kms depending on the weather. With hub gears I open the Chainglider about once a year, sometimes I just put it back without lubricating, sometimes I add a little oil, and if the chain has been on the bike for a long time I wipe the sprocket and chainring clean, permute the chain and clean/relubricate the one I take off.

Much longer life, so long as the model of hub is reliable.

My longest serving S5/2 hub gear has done over 55,000 kms so far. Other transmission parts (chain, sprocket and chainring) last longer than their derailleur equivalents and since I started using Chaingliders a few years ago their life has been extended even more.

Downsides of hub gears compared to derailleurs are:

Some models are unreliable.

Sturmey-Archer Sprinter 5-speed hubs broke after a few hundred kilometres, even with very gentle use on my wife's bike. Early Shimano 11 speeds also had a lot of failure reports. I expect Shimano has rectified the initial problems since, but I preferred to pay the extra money for Rohloff when I decided to get my first wide-range hub gear.

Limited gear range for some models.

For me, a 3-speed Sturmey-Archer hub is no longer quite sufficient for local use, and the 33% steps between gears are too great. I still have two old Sturmey-Archer hub S5/2 five speeds, still adequate for me for locally, but with advancing age I will probably need something else in a few years time. I find Shimano Nexus Premium 8-speed hubs are sufficient for local use for me and my wife. But for long distances in hilly terrain the Rohloff is better.

Not so easy to repair.

I have sufficient spare parts and experience to strip down and repair the relatively simple 3 and 5 speed Sturmey-Archer hubs. In several decades and about 103,000 kms of use I have had one failure with an S5/2 hub gear, worn pawls that meant I couldn't use gears 2 and 4 for about 200 kms when I was using the bike for survey work. Not possible to repair on the road, but easily sorted when I got back home. 

Nexus Premium 8-speed hubs are more complicated.  I have the specific tools needed to strip them down and repair them, but getting spares would probably be a problem as Shimano change the design fairly often. That said, I have been running this type of hub since 2011 on family bikes, with a total of about 18,000 kms and no problems so far. And Nexus Premium 8 hubs are (in my opinion) cheap enough to be considered as disposable if  they last for more than 5,000 kms on average, which seems to be the case.

Having looked at the Rohloff exploded view I decided that if I ever break one it will be going back to Rohloff for repair. If the information form Rohloff can be believed, problems are relatively rare. One problem that does seem to occur is cracking hub flanges, Rohloff have brought out a fix with reinforcing rings (standard on current versions of the hub). I have cracked a hub flange on a derailleur bike once, but it would have been easier to replace on tour if I had needed to, in the event the wheel finally collapsed a few hundred metres from home.


energyman

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Re: Rohloff - What's YOUR Opinion ?
« Reply #187 on: January 04, 2025, 09:28:56 PM »
I have two non electric Rohloffs which are the best thing since sliced bread.
However I have one "electronic" Rohloff which makes me want the old version.
Gear changing is a lot slower with the electronic version with a lot of crunching noises if you try and hurry the gear change.
That's it.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2025, 09:33:49 PM by energyman »

Andre Jute

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Re: Rohloff - What's YOUR Opinion ?
« Reply #188 on: January 05, 2025, 01:27:01 AM »
I do words for a living, so my vocabulary in English is somewhere north of half a million words, thus it isn't often I learn a new word. So I love "permute", the verb from the same root as "permutation". Thanks Martin.

Compared to a derailleur setup, the Rohloff does limit your transmission line permutations. But which hub gearbox doesn't?

First of all there is what I call Bernd Rohloff's Universal Rule to Cover a German Engineer's Ass, progressively relaxed over three decades, which limits the amount of torque you can put into the gearbox by under-specifying the load the gearbox can carry in real life. Sure, it protects the reputation for longevity of the Rohloff, and by stopping idiots hogging out the stress they put into the transmission also stops them from being stranded in far places. But it also irritated the serious cyclists who grew up with half-step gears who wanted to go down to 36 tooth chainrings, who couldn't within the torque rating and the available factory sprockets, at least not if they wanted to fit at least one other extremely useful component, the Hebie Chainglider.

To this problem, the Hebie management added another layer of complication and frustration for the same heavy duty tourers in their must-have Chainglider (the nearest practical thing to a fully enclosing, oil bath chain case; if you don't know, search for it on the forum) by being misleading and obtuse in their responses to requests for a 36T Chainglider. No fault of Rohloff, of course.

Now comes the punchline.

First of all, I always though there was enough choice of officially permitted front and rear counts to suit probably 99 percent of cyclists, and I said all along that the permission limits on your Rohloff was nothing but cover-assery; however, considering the benefits of Herr Rohloff's goodwill, which effectively amounted to a lifetime guarantee for those who serviced their box regularly and didn't break the rules, and the price of the Rohloff box, I couldn't in good faith advise people to break the rules, and for myself I had no need to as I found my first sweet spot (the standard 38x16 on 622mm rims; Thorn's 17T sprocket was the outlier) within the rules, and when I was ready to move on to something faster, that too was within the rules.

On the whole, I think these restrictions, which are far fewer and set at a far lower bar/higher capability than the hub gearboxes of other makers, have been beneficial to the owners of Rohloff gearboxes, especially the middle of the road utility and short but heavily loaded touring cyclist; here I have my painting gear in mind, especially the setup that the wind can't blow away. (Be interesting to know what Martin's survey tripod weighs, and whether he carried it on a bike or whether it arrived with his assistant by van.)

I couldn't even have started developing my near-zero maintenance bike, which has been a big success for me as my back stiffened with age, until I had the Rohloff installed in an equally reliable frame. It should be pretty obvious to everyone who ever repeatedly cleaned a derailleur bike why the Rohloff and the Chainglider are central to a transmission altogether less demanding and tiresome than derailleurs, and a million years more reliable.
***
After roundabout 18 years of use, what can I say about the Rohloff?

First of all: The Rohloff is worth every penny it costs. In the same period, given that previously I wrecked two Shimano Nexus boxes in short order, I estimate I would have spent more for inferior boxes in the same 18 years. In the end, the Rohloff is the cheapest bike transmission I ever bought. However much money you have, that's not a negligible consideration, but there's still more benefit: With it's reliability, the Rohloff brought an absence of wasted time considering, buying and fitting new components. That is a major benefit for someone who has other things to do.

Secondly, one of my other bikes is fully automatic (including computer controlled adaptive suspension), with a choice of several programs for electrical gear switching according to conditions. The Rohloff, which was designed as a crude piece of everlasting German farm machinery -- quite literally a mud plugger, Bernd Rohloff's own sport --. soon enough runs in and (unless you set it up like a hair-trigger derailleur -- read the manual about the desirability of a slack chain) becomes amazingly quiet in its upper register given only that you have chosen your transmission ratio to take account of your maintainable cadence and tyre rolling diameter to cover level roads in one of the overdrive gears of 12, 13 and 14. It's never going to be a jewel, but then a jewel in everyday use doesn't last anywhere near as long a Rohloff. But I don't notice that the Rohloff doesn't switch with the precise, distinct click of a small BMW manual gearbox. In fact, I don't notice the Rohloff at all. It's just there and it works; I keep one eye on the heart rate monitor, and when that rises or falls past the limits, my hand autonomously changes gears. What more than inaudibility and invisibility can you ask from a machine that serves you and has already lasted at least 18 times as long as any other? That's the definition of a noble machine.

« Last Edit: January 06, 2025, 04:28:16 AM by Andre Jute »

martinf

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Re: Rohloff - What's YOUR Opinion ?
« Reply #189 on: January 05, 2025, 08:55:30 AM »
To this problem, the Hebie management added another layer of complication and frustration for the same heavy duty tourers in their must-have Chainglider (the nearest practical thing to a fully enclosing, oil bath chain case; if you don't know, search for it on the forum) by being misleading and obtuse in their responses to requests for a 36T Chainglider. No fault of Rohloff, of course.

There is a workaround for combining really low gears and a Chainglider on a Rohloff equipped bike.


3 years ago I lowered the gear range on my Raven Sport Tour, which I use for lightly loaded day rides. Partly because I hardly ever used the highest gear, but mainly so that I could fit a Chainglider. I originally had 50x19 on this, gear range 18" to 95" and no Chainglider.

I now have 42x19, so a gear range of 15" to 80". At 90 rpm this gives 6.6 km/h to 35 km/h. For a very short period I can just about push it to 50 km/h by increasing pedalling rate. The 350R-D18 rear Chainglider part works with the 19T sprocket without touching the hub shell. This clearance issue was the reason Hebie made a Rohloff-specific rear Chainglider part for the 15-17T sprockets that are usually fitted as standard on a Rohloff.

A year ago I drastically lowered the gear range on my Raven Tour by fitting a splined carrier and 21T sprocket instead of the original screw-on 16T sprocket and swapping out the Rohloff-specific rear part of the Chainglider for the 350R-D18 rear part.

So I now have 38x21 (slightly lower than the minimum input ratio of 1.9 specified by Rohloff), which gives a range of 13" to 67", which at my preferred pedalling rate of 90 rpm equates to 5.5 km/h in the lowest gear and 29 km/h in the highest. If necessary, I can still push the bike up to about 40 km/h for very short periods by increasing pedalling rate, but at 68 years old I reckon a "normal" top speed of 29 km/h is quite sufficient for me on a loaded tourer.




 


Andyb1

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Re: Rohloff - What's YOUR Opinion ?
« Reply #190 on: January 05, 2025, 10:23:39 AM »
I have only used my Rohloff geared bike for 2 years / 5000 miles and an advantage not often mentioned (perhaps it is so obvious!) is that all the Rohloff gears are useable at full power with no risk of slipage or jams.

When riding with derailleur gears (which could be a few years old) there is often the thought at the back of my mind that the chain might slip on a sprocket (or as a worst case have chainsuck), or a mech can get knocked or go out of adjustment so the chain ends up in the rear wheel, or the chain can drop off / fall between chainwheels.  The probability of these things happening obviously increasing as the gear system ages……not a worry with Rohloff.

martinf

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Re: Rohloff - What's YOUR Opinion ?
« Reply #191 on: January 05, 2025, 03:09:55 PM »
When riding with derailleur gears (which could be a few years old) there is often the thought at the back of my mind that the chain might slip on a sprocket (or as a worst case have chainsuck), or a mech can get knocked or go out of adjustment so the chain ends up in the rear wheel, or the chain can drop off / fall between chainwheels.  The probability of these things happening obviously increasing as the gear system ages……not a worry with Rohloff.

That kind of thing can happen. I have done about the same distance with derailleurs as with hub gears, and have destroyed only two rear derailleurs in about 130,000 kms (both times after picking up metal debris, once off road and once on a proper road). So with a reasonably well maintained drivetrain I reckon it is a fairly rare occurrence, except perhaps for serious off-road riding.

Shortly after I got my lightweight tourer in 1977 I did have a chain come off the inner ring and get stuck between ring and frame (making some unsightly small dents in the lightweight Reynolds tubing), but I reckon that was due to bad adjustment on my part. 

Chain skipping is a feature of derailleur gears when the chain and/or sprocket(s) are worn. This also happened on my hub-geared Brompton, but doesn't happen on hub gear bikes or single-speeds with an eccentric or sliding dropout that eliminates a derailleur-style tensioner.