My New Raven Tour

[freddered]

Bars Lowered, Accessory Bar raised, computer and GPS fitted.  Works really well.

http://www.geocities.com/freddered1/bars.jpg

[PH]

I know what you're saying about not being able to have drops and a still use the changer well.  It is IMO possible to get closer to some of the drop bar positions with narrow straight bars than with the comfort bars.  The way mine are set up, the grips are almost the position as riding on the tops and the bar ends are close to the hoods position.
Even so, after a year I still miss not having a drops position, if anyone ever comes up with an STI/Ergo type shifter I'll be first in the queue.

my bike

[freddered]

The Raven Tour evolves

Drops fitted, shifter mounted on accessory bar, new short stem fitted (original was too long for drops at 110mm, this is 50mm).

Check it out.

www.geocities.com/freddered1/drops1.jpg
www.geocities.com/freddered1/drops2.jpg

Out of the box
http://www.geocities.com/freddered1/bike_side.jpg

I've done a couple of 15 mile rides and I prefer it immediately. I'm not saying drops are better than flats, I'm just saying that I've got used to a certain style of riding that involves using the brake hoods for most of my riding and especially climbing out of saddle (if your thighs are strong enough to cope sat down then congratulations, mine aren't on some occasions).

Changing gear is less convenient than either STI levers or gripshift on Flat Bars. However, it's not that bad. If you plan on racing flat out then it is NOT an acceptable position for a shifter. The drops let me go back to my usual technique of standing up and 'stomping up' small inclines without bothering to change gear.

The new brake levers are OK, I can lock up the back wheel if required, not as effortlessly as with original 'flats' levers but it's more than adequate.

Also because I used new brake cables and left the old ones attached to original bars, I can swap the flats back in (for a family ride or rougher terrain maybe) in 10 minutes. Just a matter of sliding old stem/bars on, threading rear brake cable through guides and, if I want to, sliding gripshift back on. Best of both worlds I think.

[stutho]

Freddered:

Are you going faster?

[freddered]

Yes.

Actually only by a small amount and it's early days.

I have a 14 mile 'lunch time' circuit I do a couple of time a week.  Immediately after fitting drops I did it 0.5mph Average quicker.

I don't actually care much about the increase because it could easily be down to wind direction...etc.  The main improvement was that it FELT quicker and easier.

===>>> Here is some advice (only for riders who like drops).  Get a Raven frame size suited to BOTH drops and flats at the time of purchase.  In fact, consider buying both bars with correct fittings at time of purchase.

The advantage of flats is clear.  Better control, better braking, convenience of shifting, ability to look around and sight-see.

The advantage of drops is not so clear unless you have grown up with them.  They are quicker (or Lance Armstrong would use flats), they feel better climbinbg out of saddle and they give more hand positions.

If you have grown up with flats, fine, stick with them, they are better in most respects for general purpose riding.  If you have spent 30 years bent over drops then I suggest you get an additional pair of flats you can quickly bolt in for leisurely riding with your family or for riding rough tracks around the world at 10mph with luggage.

Either way I think the bike is really growing on me. I just had to learn to ease off a bit.

Apart from Heads-down, Arse-up, racing cyclists I can't think of any reason why you wouldn't like this bike.

I've yet to hang my panniers of it but I think it will seem better the more luggage I put on it. (I haven't used 1st, 2nd or 3rd gear yet!!!)

[stutho]

Did you have any problems getting the right height with the drops? Had the steering tube being cut?

[freddered]

No, Steerer tube was left long just in case.

www.geocities.com/freddered1/drops2.jpg

originally it was for accessory bars but now I would never cut a steerer down on a general purpose bike.  A long steerer gives you so many options (maybe at the expense of razor-sharp looks).

I just needed a shorter stem to compensate for reach.

[Arnaud]

Hello,

I've owned the Raven Sport Tour for over a month now and done nearly 1.300km. I rode it on the first half of the Great Western Australian Bike Ride, between Albany and Margaret River, together with 2.500 other cyclists. There were only four Rohloff equipped bikes amongst the lot ! This bike is SUPERB. I felt like I was flying up the hills due to the ability to change gears at the right time and without any fuss.No maintenance whatsoever , apart from a few drops of oil on the chain, over the 700km trip. The bike mechanics were flat out adjusting derailleurs and fixing broken chains till well into the night. And the noise generated by the bikes of all those people desperately trying to change gears halfway up the hills...
Today I have retensioned the chain for the first time.During the ride a few connoisseurs commented on how nicely the frame was put together.
There is no way I'm returning this bike to SJS Cycles !

A very, very satisfied owner of a Raven Sport Tour.

[stutho]

How long did the ride take you Arnaud.  2,500 Cyclists over 700km sounds - I bet there was a big party at the end!

[Arnaud]

The ride took nine days. It was an eye opener for me, never seen so many cyclists in one place (I have travelled the Sahara extensively but never been to China or India !) Last year in Victoria they had over six thousand participants !!! Next year I'm doing the Tasmanian Ride. A small percentage were "gear freaks" but I would say the majority didn't have a clue about the use of gears and would have been better off with hub gears. Out of 2.600 participants there were only four Rohloff equipped bikes."Is this an automatic?","What about spare parts ?","It must be very heavy !" were some of the uninformed questions asked. A Rohloff equipped bike is like FRESH Extra Virgin Olive Oil: once you've tasted the real stuff you never go back to the rubbish they sell as extra Virgin in your favourite supermarket.Having said that I'm glad not every second bike runs on Rohloff; it gives a nice feeling to be part of a (well informed) minority.

[freddered]

OK, back to original title of this thread, MY NEW RAVEN TOUR.  I've had it for 6 weeks now and done about 250 miles on a few weekend leisure rides.  The last ride was 73 miles over quite hilly North Hampshire (UK) terrain (my GPS said 117km and 1750m of ascent).  The ride was mainly on country lanes typically strewn with gravel, branches, dead rabbits and the like.  The weather was everything: sun, wind, rain, hail, a typical early April day and one that would reveal an unsuitable touring bike pretty quickly.

The Raven was superb really.  The 1.5" Panaracer Hi-Roads gave a lot of comfort and confidence whilst coasting along quite quickly.

The Hub never missed a beat.  Given the sudden changes in gradient it would be possible to get in a mess with derailleur changes but the Rohloff makes it all a lot calmer.  Once it's in it never feels like slipping, very positive.

I never had to go below 4th gear (equivalent to 1st on my old Tourer!!) so it has a lot in reserve.  Maybe I'll change a sprocket and trade 1st gear for a higher top end.  95" top end is not really high enough for me down hill.  Maybe if I was carrying luggage then I wouldn't change it (but then for the price of a sprocket I can have both options).

All in all it's becoming more and more obvious that the hype is correct.  I think it may be the perfect 'bike for life'.  It's very comfy.  It's very solid and sure on the road.  It's a bit heavy and long as a result but that makes for a relaxed ride.  It's built to carry you and a ton of luggage round the World but will do light day tours.  It's absolutely silent in 8th and above, I mean really amazingly quiet.  There's no skipping or crunching of gears.  It will accomodate a huge range of tyres (Road and MTB) if required although the Hi-Roads are superb for general purpose riding.

For me there is only one drawback, the lack of an STI equivalent gear lever.  The Accessory bar mounted one is better than my old downtube levers but not as good as my STI levers.  I really wish I could click up/down whilst climbing out of the saddle with my hands on the hoods.

Come on you clever Germans, make me something suitable.

This is not the big issue it was at first, the positives outweigh this negative.

In another month I'm going to get my old Tourer out and go for spin to make a final comparison.  To be honest I'm not missing it at all.  When I walk in the garage they are next to each other and I know I'd pick the Raven now, it's just too comfortable.

Hope this helps someone make a decision.

I probably won't update this now until my 100 day trial is over.  Will let you know the final outcome though.

[freddered]

Update.  Went on a 111 mile ride around Hants, Berks & Wilts to see how the bike and my body got on.  It really was a terrible day for a long ride.  Most of my circular route seemed to be into a headwind, only getting a tailwind on homeward 25 miles when I was totally knackered.  I think I have been more knackered after a day in the saddle but I don't remember it.

The result was my bike being returned to SJSC for a frame with shorter top tube (537S as opposed to 537L).

Fitting the drops with a frame set-up for flats has problems:
1) The reach is too great with stem provided for flats.
2) Even a much shorter stem didn't bring bars back far enough and reduced the height of the bars causing bad neck/shoulder ache (admittedly after a long time in the saddle).
3) The short stem puts the top of the bars over the shifter (mounted on accessory bar) and makes it harder to access.

The proposed short frame will allow for longer stem to give height (as it slopes upward) and clearance for the shifter whilst still bringing bars a couple of cm closer.

Will find out later this week.

In the meantime I took the opportunity to ride my old British Eagle Touristique.  This was a bike that, when purchased 20 years ago, felt smooth and comfortable after my road bike.  Now it feels like a road bike, quite twitchy.  In fact I got off to check wheels and tyres.

I guess that my 700x28c tyres always rode like that.  It just shows how stable the Raven is on 26x1.5 tyres and what a nice ride a proportianally long wheelbase gives(I mean I can fit a pump between seat tube and mudguard!!!).

I was no faster on my old bike BUT it felt a lot faster.  This can only be due to the way 700c wheels/tyres transmit bumps as it's a squidgy 531 frame and forks.  The equivalent is driving an old mini vs a modern saloon car.  My old mini always felt fast but really wasn't.

So watch this space for updates when I get the Raven back.

[stutho]

Hi Freddered,  
Sorry to here you are still searching for the perfect set-up.  I have now got about 1500 mile on my raven.  If I were being picky I would say that the reach is just a little long and the bar height a little low (and I have got a short frame!)  However it is so much nicer to ride than anything else I have ever ridden. I am sure that when you get your drop specific frame that everything will improve.  

"I was no faster on my old bike BUT it felt a lot faster."  
Its odd isn't it. I find exactly the same thing and so have others.  I think it maybe the Rohloff is changing the 'feel' of the pedal stroke.

Good Luck with the new frame.
PS How were SJSC OK about the switch over?

[freddered]

I told them about my discomfort and they send a van a couple of days later to collect the bike.  We have had a few phone calls and email exchanges to discuss Stems..etc.  

Nobody has mentioned any charges but in fairness to me I did say when I went for a 'fitting' that I would probably end up on Drop bars

This is what good reputations are built on.  Hopefully, even if I decide to return the bike under 100 day warranty, enough people will read this (or speak to people who have) to realise that it's an exceptional company making an exceptional bike.
I'm sure that for every bike customers return (and SJSC sell for a tidy sum on EBAY) they generate more custom World-Wide because of the ability to do so.

Try buying an off-the-peg Dawes Ultra Galaxy for similar money and sending it back 3 months later because you got neck ache, they may possibly suggest you go hither henceforth. (Actually you would probably have few objections to sending it back, I just don't think it would be worth waiting by the front door for your money to arrive).

[daveireland]

Freddered

What GPS do you use?

Dave