Rohloff and Freezing Winter Temps

[sydney_b]

Has anyone put a winter's worth of miles on a Rohloff with temperatures usually well below freezing?  If yes, were you happy with its performance?

/s

[sydney_b]

For what it's worth, Ice Bike mentions the Rohloff, but doesn't really talk about anyone who's used it.

http://www.icebike.org/Equipment/CustomEquipment.htm

[graham]

We used our Rohloff tandem all last winter in the UK, 100 miles a week no matter what the weather. Oh OK, we didn't set out if it was raining persistently, but we got wet whilst out quite frequently. Whilst not consistently freezing, there were several occasions when we were out with frost on the ground. Including one memorable occasion when the blizzard was so heavy it was laying on my glasses as quick as I could wipe it off, and of course it was laying on the road too. We turned round about seven miles from home that day as it seemed foolhardy to continue.
The coldest conditions we encountered didn't seem to make any difference to the performance of the hub.
I think all current hubs (including ours) are filled with oil which is capable of taking a bit of frost, but if you get it cold enough, shifting malfunction may occur as the oil turns to grease.

This winter could see a bit more of a test if the weather forecasters are right.

[sydney_b]

Thank you so much for your info.  I'm here in the middle of the states and we're having avg. temps of -5 C to -1 C.  I guess at the very least, it can't possibly work worse than my derailleur and it will be unaffected by the slush.

/s

[graham]

I located my Rohloff Manual.

Below 0 degrees C the malfunction you might get according to the troubleshooting section is 'freespinning' after a gear change .

One problem is said to be that the gearbox oil is too thick, and the solution is to change it with 'intensive rinsing', to get rid of the thickened oil, I suppose.

If you ride the bike below -15 C, the hub should be rinsed intensively and filled with 'special gear change assistant fluid.' (cleaning oil). This is obviously thinner than the normal oil.

[sydney_b]

How old is your manual?  A friend of mine said Rohloff switched to a
multi-viscosity all-season oil, which supposedly fixed this problem a year or more ago.  

/s

[graham]

The English one came with my Raven tour which arrived in June 2004 (no. 41 thousand something).The manual with the tandem (no. 31 thousand something) which arrived a year earlier was in German.
I'm pretty confident that both hubs were filled with all season oil. The tandem had its first oil change in January '05 and I bought the oil change kit from SJSC which I'm sure also included the all-season oil. But Rohloff only really seem to be talking about needing to thin the oil at extremely low temperatures (-15 C), so I don't think you should have a problem at -5 with a new hub.

[west am andy]

Hi - I've had the problem of "freespinning" on my last two rides - 3-4 seconds of spinning cranks before the gear engages on about 5 - 10% of gear changes.  

Given it happened in Richmond Park with no cars around it was merely irritating (nearly fell of first time though) - if it happened going round Hyde Park corner it would have been a slightly different proposition though.

Admitedly is was freezing on both days, with frost on the ground - but not cold enough to freeze the water in my water bottle.  

If cold is the cause it seems a bit of a weird problem to have on a piece of kit whose whole selling point is that it's robust.  Also no mention of it in the pre-sale publicity - although I did get a leaflet from Rohloff on receiving the bike that says that "at temps below 0 C some hub parts can freeze and cause shifting malfunction".  Would've been nice to know about this before shelling out.

I guess the only way to find out is to go for a ride on a warmer day.  Will do it and report back.

And if cold is the problem, what's the solution?

Andy

[sydney_b]

This is the reply my friend received from Rohloff:

"the 'only problem' is that the hub begins to shift like in slow motion ...
Normally there should be no problems until -15°C. If you have problems or you ride under temperatures from -15 or -20° you
have the possibility to mix our all season oil with the cleaning oil (50/50). So you can ride without any problems (normally)."

[west am andy]

Aha!  I went for a ride yesterday - it was above freezing - and the Rohloff performed flawlessly.  Whereas the previous two rides, early morning with frost, I'd had the problem with "spinning out" on some gear changes.  

So on my Rohloff, there is obviously a shifting problem when it's ridden below freezing.  And not far below freezing - I'd guess it was no more than -2 or -3 Celsius.  

Which seems a bit weird but there you go.  Anyone have any ideas how to fix it?  
Andy

[redcogs]

mine's a bit similar west am andy, free spinning every now and again.  i just live with it, which is easy enough because the hub is so damned good in every other respect.

[]

[Sprocket]

I would be interested to know if redcogs and west am andy kept their bikes indoors or in an unheated garage/bikeshed. At just 2 or 3 degrees below, I imagine it is going to take a while before the cold seeps to the centre of a hub and causes trouble. If the bike was at room temperature at the start of a ride, would the swishing of the oil when riding keep it liquid enough not to cause trouble?

[west am andy]

Hallo sprocket

The second time I rode in the cold I had kept the bike indoors in a centrally-heated house.  It started to malfuntion about 30-40 mins into the ride, so I can only presume that it took that long for the oil or whatever to freeze and cause the problem.

However, even though there was a thick frost on the ground in Richmond Park the water in my water bottle did not freeze - hence my surprise.  As you say, I would have thought that, once you're at room temp, the movement and friction would be enough to keep the thing warm enough not to give a problem when you take it outdoors.

Anyway, sjs cycles are sending me some thinner oil  - so I'll try that and see what happens.  Apparently this problem is common in Scandinavia.

Andy

[graham]

It would appear to be consensus that it is possible for moisture to enter a Rohloff hub.
Anyone unfortunate enough to have owned a very old car will quite possibly have seen what happens to oil and water when mixed in a car engine: emulsification.
I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing would happen with oil and water mixed thoroughly in a Rohloff hub, although I expect it wouldn't be as extreme as in a car engine.
I have seen the same thing in gearboxes fitted to various types of mechanical plant.
Anyway, mildly emulsified oil is likely to be a bit more viscous than the oil or water from which it's made, I reckon (the components that make up a vinegrette dressing, oil and vinegar, are both runnier than the dressing after they've been well shaken together). So if you have slight emulsification and add in a lower than normal ambient temperature shifting malfunction is more likely to occur. Well, that's my theory, anyway.
The Rohloff manual does refer to spinning cranks possibly occuring at any temperature. And one of the solutions is to thoroughly rinse the old oil out and replace it. (If that doesn't work then it seems Rohloff might have to have the hub back).
This has been happening with the current hub on our tandem, which now has 2500 miles on it. But only in colder temperatures and if we're careful to pause for half a second while we change gear it doesn't do it. So it seems like the gearchange has slowed down a bit. I'm trying to decide whether to wait another 600 miles or just do the oil change now.

[Dave Wood]

I've been commuting for just under a year and over 3000k now with no problems at all. When at home the bike lives in a central heated cellar so it always sets off warm and dry but riding home after 10 hours+ in a chilly bike shed has never been a problem. The 7th/8th gear change might be a fraction slower on the worst days but not much.
dave