Rant Time!!

[jimmer]

Dear Zerobike,

Did every other sentence in "The Telegraph" really begin with a conjunction?

Yours, James

[il padrone]

English grammar

hwæt we gar-dena in geardagum,
þeodcyninga þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon.
oft scyld scefing sceaþena þreatum,
monegum mægþum meodosetla ofteah,
egsode eorlas, syððan ærest wearð
feasceaft funden; he þæs frofre gebad,
weox under wolcnum, weorðmyndum þah,
oðþæt him æghwylc þær ymbsittendra
ofer hronrade hyran scolde,
gomban gyldan. þæt wæs god cyning!

Well, it's actually Old English, but just goes to show how the language doth change 


Translation:

    Lo, praise of the prowess of people-kings
    of spear-armed Danes, in days long sped,
    we have heard, and what honour the athelings won!
    Oft Scyld the Scefing from squadroned foes,
    from many a tribe, the mead-bench tore,
    awing the earls. Since erst he lay,
    friendless, a foundling, fate repaid him:
    for he waxed under welkin, in wealth he throve,
    till before him the folk, both far and near,
    who house by the whale-path, heard his mandate,
    gave him gifts: a good king he!

Translation by Francis Gummere (1910).

Even then the modern English is far from how we'd speak it today.

[JWestland]

Yeah, but no, but yeah?

Eats, shoots and leaves (eats shoots and leaves) is a nice small book on punctuation etc.

And also be mindful of the "grammar nazi" internet meme: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/grammar-nazi

[John Saxby]

Wonderful stuff.  And rants are often good, as a means of letting off steam, so long as no-one's too badly burned in the process.

I hesitated about adding something to this, 'cos I years back, when the earth was cooling & I was young, I was a teacher of English, and even studied linguistics, so all this gets close to the bone, y'know. But I'm about to sign off for two months--a work trip to Brazil, a long weekend in Noo Yawk, and a trip to Oz to visit our son and daughter-in-law and their 4-day-old wee babe, our first grandchild--so I'm wholly relaxed about everything, and will in any case return only when the snow is gone and the geese are flying north.  (Apologies for a sentence that's too long by half--blame it on the otherwise blameless wee babe.)

Some observations, then -

1)   Between Strunk & White, and "Eats, Shoots, and Leaves", you really can't go wrong.

2)   Some years ago, I was speaking with an Asian guy--I think he was Korean--who'd just given a really good slide-show presentation in English. I complimented him on his comfort with a second language. He said in an enthusiastic and quite unselfconscious way--only later did I how profound was his observation--that English was great, because the only thing that mattered was whether you could get your point across, and if you could all else was forgiven. Some people would say that the language was for this reason only about utility, but I realized he'd put his finger on its adaptability, its flexibility, and the non-judgmental quality of those who use it--hence, on its richness.

3)   So, people throughout the world have found that they can use the language for their own purposes, in a rough-and-ready sort of way. That's to their credit, and at the same time compliment to the language, that it can serve so many purposes.  That said, it can be so difficult to learn:  its grammar (rules, guidelines and conventions) is anything but airtight.  Every "rule" is beset by exceptions, context so often decides meaning, and metaphors are everywhere. We become jacks-of-all-trades, with few of us really mastering it.

4)

[Danneaux]

I'm about to sign off for two months...

John!

What's Observation No. 4?  1 to 3 were so good, I'm dying to find out!  

You can't make us wait for two months to find out... 

All the best,

Dan. (...who really reads all the Forum posts)

[John Saxby]

Dan, I blundered! Not once, but twice! Hit some Unknown Key, and ended at 4).

Then, seeing that I'd lost unwittingly the thread -- ho ho ho -- I typed what I'd intended to...and then, though I clicked "post", THAT disappeared too!   Did it go into a "delete" bin, somehow, into the land of lost content?

I could prob resurrect it if I tried -- but maybe there's a crevice where it's wedged and can't get free?  There's a reflection on the democratic quality of non-BBC-Southern English; our own Canajan linguistic tensions; and my own pet peeves about bafflegab in gummint and bizness.

J.

[Danneaux]

Whew! 

All the best,

Dan. (...who's had the same thing happen; thank goodness for the "Modify" button! )

[John Saxby]

Will re-do it tomorrow--who'll know if I get it "wrong"?  (Who'll care?)

J.

[il padrone]

From http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2007/06/30/british-english-vs-malaysian-english/

British English vs Malaysian English

(For a laugh. Thanks Huang for forwarding the following email:)

Who says our English is teruk.? Just see below -

Ours is simple, short, concise, straight-to-point, effective etc:

WHEN GIVING A CUSTOMER BAD NEWS

Britons: I’m sorry, Sir, but we don’t seem to have the sweater you want in your size, but if you give me a moment, I can call the other outlets for you.
Malaysians: No Stock.

RETURNING A CALL

Britons: Hello, this is John Smith. Did anyone page for me a few moments ago?
Malaysians: Hello, who page?

ASKING SOMEONE TO MAKE WAY

Britons: Excuse me, I’d like to get by. Would you please make way?
Malaysians: S-kew me

WHEN SOMEONE OFFERS TO PAY

Britons: Hey, put your wallet away, this drink is on me.
Malaysians:No-need, lah.

WHEN ASKING FOR PERMISSION

Britons: Excuse me, but do you think it would be possible for me to enter through this door?
Malaysians: (pointing the door) can ar?

WHEN ENTERTAINING

Britons: Please make yourself right at home.
Malaysians: Don’t be shy, lah!

WHEN DOUBTING SOMEONE

Britons: I don’t recall you giving me the money.
Malaysians: Where got?

WHEN DECLINING AN OFFER

Britons: I’d prefer not to do that, if you don’t mind.
Malaysians: Don’t want la…

IN DISAGREEING ON A TOPIC OF DISCUSSION

Britons: Err. Tom, I have to stop you there. I understand where you’re coming from, but I really have to disagree with what you said about the issue.
Malaysians: You mad, ah?

WHEN ASKING SOMEONE TO LOWER THEIR VOICE

Britons: Excuse me, but could you please lower your voice, I’m trying to concentrate over here.
Malaysians: Shut up lah!

WHEN ASKING SOMEONE IF HE/SHE KNOWS YOU

Britons: Excuse me, but I noticed you staring at me for some time.. Do I know you?
Malaysians: See what, see what?

WHEN ASSESSING A TIGHT SITUATION

Britons: We seem to be in a bit of a predicament at the moment.
Malaysians: Die-lah!!

WHEN TRYING TO FIND OUT WHAT HAD HAPPENED

Britons: Will someone tell me what has just happened?
Malaysians: Wat happen Why like that….

WHEN SOME ONE DID SOMETHING WRONG

Britons: This isn’t the way to do it, here let me show you,
Malaysians: like that also don’t know how to do!!!!

WHEN ONE IS ANGRY

Britons: Would you mind not disturbing me
Malaysians: Celaka u

IN PARLIAMENT, THE QUESTION ON “BOCOR”

Briton: Where is the leak? I shall ask the Works Minister to look into it.
Malaysian: STUPID, STUPID, STUPID question. Where got “bocor” ?

[Andre Jute]

(Apologies for a sentence that's too long by half--)

That's all right, John. You're with friends here. We know it takes four times as long to write a short letter. -- Andre Jute

[JWestland]

Hehe wonder if Malaysian English inspired the internet speak of "You mad, bro?"

I am Dutch, I make some hiccups every now and then.

Best one ever at work was instead of saying "I am off next Tuesday" I said "I am getting off next Tuesday".

(...)

[Matt2matt2002]

.

Best one ever at work was instead of saying "I am off next Tuesday" I said "I am getting off next Tuesday".

(...)

And did you?

[JimK]

Hit some Unknown Key,

The old Apple 2 Plus was a true delight. The Reset key was right next to the Enter key. More than once I would get going on some wonderful new code, get a few pages of intricate logic all laid out, get into a coding frenzy, and then BLINK hit the reset key and that was that.

Ctl-Alt-Del came soon after. A better idea!

[John Saxby]

Yes, well, as I was saying when I so comprehensively interrupted myself,

4)   The re-working of English as She is Spoke and Wrote can be wondrous to behold.  Hard to imagine more extravagant and exhuberant language than one sees in Nigerian or Indian papers, for example.  I greatly enjoyed living for several years in Zambia, and learned that, as seems common in oral cultures, Zambians take delight in wordplay. I was complaining to a friend once, about my inability to find a mutual acquaintance, who seemed never at home. "Ah yes, said my friend, "that one is very movious."  And it's quite OK to compliment your host after a satisfying meal by saying, "Thanks! I'm fed up."

      But the real issue here is that people around the world have taken advantage of and have expanded the great flexibility and richness of the language, interpreting it and adapting it to their own circumstances.  There's an underlying democratic impulse at work here, it seems to me, a statement from practice that BBC-Southern is not The Grand Arbiter of Taste and Usage.

      It's not all sweetness and light, however. We Canajans get ourselves quite tangled, quite frequently.  One evening, as I was leaving a performance of Jacques Brel's songs in French and English (delivered brilliantly by a Québecoise chanteuse), the woman in front of me remarked in French how frightful it was, to sing the songs of Brel "in the language of business."  Without really thinking about it, I said, also in French, "But madame, it's equally the language of Milton and Shakespeare."  She glared at me, but the moment luckily/happily passed...

   Over the years, then, I've pretty much accepted that people will speak English in very different ways--certainly different from my mid-Atlantic mixture--and that that's no bad thing at all.  Equally, some variants I enjoy more than others.

5)   Of course we all have our own list of Things That Drive Me Nuts.  High on my list are words used in ways which obscure responsibility and accountability, especially the responsibility and accountability of decision-makers, public or private.

      Thus, we have products--freighters, cellphones, cola--which "launch" or "ship":  it's the products which do this, we're told, not the companies which make and sell and distribute them. 

      Slightly different, but equally infuriating, is bafflegab.  Bureaucrats are especially adept at this, using passive verb forms to obscure agency, responsibility, and accountability. "The decision was taken to..." "It was decided that..."  By whom, pray tell?  I've had enough close exposure to government behaviour to be convinced that the purpose here is to avoid or deflect scrutiny and transparency.  So much so, indeed, that this practice has become almost second nature by now, a default mode which doesn't even require conscious choice.

Enough already!  Here endeth my pulpit opportunity.  Will be back in touch in mid-April, when the snow's gone, my two-wheelers are on the road, and the geese are flying north.

J.

PS: You're right, Andre -- I'd have made it shorter if I'd had the time!