Thinking of buying a Raven Sport. Advice please

[docmatix]

I guess that I'm writing to the converted but am thinking of investing in a Raven Sport Tour and would like some advice.
It would be my main bike for commuting (25 mile trip, 2-4 times weekly) and winter weekends, plus the odd lightly laden tour - at present I prefer B&B to tents but that could change. I have a fast audax bike ( Enigma Etape) for summer rides, sportives and some touring - UK, France, Netherlands. My current commuter/winter bike is an old aluminium cyclocross.

Three issues really, bearing in mind that I live 300 miles away from Bridgewater and can't just drop into the shop to discuss, at least not until I'm clearer about my needs.

1. Weight. I like to ride and travel light; my home area has plenty of steep hills. I've read that the Raven is a tank. Is the weight of the bike a significant issue; i.e. does it detract from the enjoyment of the ride.
2. Hand position. I'm used to drops but have ridden mountain bikes with straight bars, with or without bar ends. It's clear that Thorn bikes are thoughtfully designed but would welcome advice on choice of bars for my kind of riding.
3. Rohloff hubs; are they worth the money vs good derailleurs, particularly for winter riding?

Thanks for any advice,

Mike

[Andybg]

Hi Mike

I am sure you will get a lot of feedback on this one.

I owned a Raven Sport Tour (RST) for about a year and more recently a Ravet Tour (RT)

In answer to your questions:

Although not a light bike by any means the RST does carry its weight very well and rides like a much sportier and lighter bike than it really is. Unless you have to lug the bike up and down a flight of stairs or put the bike on a set of scales, I dont think you will find the bike heavy.

There are plenty of people running Rohloff bikes with drop bars so it is more a case of deciding which you prefer (drops or straights) and going with that. My RST had straight bars with ergon GP3 "ski" barends and although I generally prefer drops it felt very comfortable and sporty.

The Rohloff debate versus der can go on and on. The fors and against each system are pretty well covered in other posts so I will not reiterate them here. If the pros of a Rohloff out way the cons then the Rohloff definetly does deliver what it says on the tin. For a winter bike where you will be mainly doing solo miles where speed and reliability and comfort are the main drivers I would say you would struggle to do better than an RST.

In respect to touring the bike is rated somewhere about the 22kg luggage mark which should be more than enough for B&B or even tent camping in the civilised world where food and water allowance is not a big driver.

The RST is now being a discontinued model which I think many fans are sad about so you will need to be quick

Hope the above helps

Andy

[ZeroBike]

The RST is now being a discontinued model which I think many fans are sad about so you will need to be quick
 

Really.

Are there any other Thorn models that are being phased out?

[triaesthete]

Hi Mike
welcome to the forum.
In response to your points:

1. The RST is not unduly heavy for a steel frame. Andy B has specified very light stays and fairly light forkblades  for compliance and comfort. I suppose the eccentric bottom bracket is "heavy" by weight weenie standards. The rest of the bike is down to your preference on cost and weight versus comfort, durability and practicality. I suppose you could say RSTs are "heavy" because they are, in general, built up as they need to be for the latter and the weight is what it is.

2. Drop bars with the Berthoud shifter work well for me  and of course they keep the on the hoods position that is best for out of saddle climbing(but see 3).

3. Rohloff: worth the money if you have it, and super low maintenance to boot, no question! It also gives you really easy to use low gears, so much so that I almost never get out of the saddle any more unless gradients are approaching 25%. My knees love it as all my rides have lots of climbing and ALL the gears get used every ride. (Running 42x16= approx 19" to 100"  range. Riding high in the Pennines.) Low gears, 40mm tyres and low maintenance/cleaning also mean exploring  off road routes is now so much easier, more pleasant, practical and desirable than on a 700c derailleur bike. Rigida Grizzly CSS rims and 40mm Marathon Supremes also enhance this aspect of the bike.

In summary I knew I wanted one of these but first I bought lighter, cheaper, less comfortable, less versatile and less practical derailleur bikes and then realised they really weren't really quite right for me. I'm now a recovering weight weenie and I love my RST a lot.

Buy one quick though, they've stopped making them!
I hope this aids your deliberations
Ian

[Cambirder]

I have been running one for 15 months now and from my experience it sounds ideal for your use. Mine is fitted with straights with bar ends and I use it for day rides, light touring and audax rides. Personally I'm really happy with the shift from drops to straight bars and have not suffered any hand problems even on the 300 km audax ride I did last March. I've done 7500 km now and I still find it fun to ride and it is the most comfortable bike I've ever owned.

Yes it is not a lightweight but I find it quite sprightly, although I went with the lightest wheel option (DT Swiss) and lightish tyres (Pasala TGs).

They have been discontinued because of the introduction of the Mercury but that is a more expensive (if very nice looking) option.

[sg37409]

I've used an RST for commuting much of the last year. I've had it for more than 2 years now, and really like it. The comfort outweighs the weight penalty on most rides, though on a hilly 200k audax, I found the weight very hard work indeed.  One thing not mentioned and I feel is specific to commuting especially is the brakes: If you have CSS rims, they are pretty crap in the wet. Flip side is they stay nice and clean and hardly wear contributing to low maint.  I go very carefully in my city commute if wet. If dry, its a better brake combo than normal alloy rims.

I also find I hardly stand up on the hills on mine. I have wondered why. It certainly is a factor in my slower climbing on the rohloff.

[Cambirder]

I also find I hardly stand up on the hills on mine. I have wondered why. It certainly is a factor in my slower climbing on the rohloff.

I actually like to stand quite a lot on hills which provides a nice change to sitting in the saddle all day and certainly gets you up a lot quicker. Grinding up a 25% gradient in low gear is certainly better than walking with a lightweight bike equipped up with compact derailers.

Having said that I've never owned anything other than steel framed bikes so I can't really compare performance to a lightweight alternative.

[Andybg]

A lot is down to presonal opinion but I find the rohloff box does not really the best for out of the saddle honking up hills. I find the gearbox more comfortable with a seated position spinning it up the hills.

I do not know if this is due to any of the following possibe reasons:

Higher mass rear wheel not liking the jerky acceleration of standing when going up hills/
The freewheel mechanism on the Rohloff being slower to engage than a der system.
Slack or some other mechanical force (friction of inertia) not liking uneven pedalling.

There is certainly a different feel to the pedaling of a Rohloff than a der bike and I find it most apparent at low rpm honking up hills.

That being said I think high rpm low gear hill climbing is far more efficient and in some cases faster than low rpm standing up.

Would be interested what other peoples views are?

Andy

[martinf]

A lot is down to presonal opinion but I find the rohloff box does not really the best for out of the saddle honking up hills. I find the gearbox more comfortable with a seated position spinning it up the hills.

That being said I think high rpm low gear hill climbing is far more efficient and in some cases faster than low rpm standing up.

Would be interested what other peoples views are?

Not sure it is more efficient or faster to use high rpm and low gear, but I prefer it.

My left knee hurts if I use a high gear and low rpm. Hence the 18" gear on the derailler setup I used in the Picos, and the 17" on my new Thorn.

[Swislon]

I bought my RST in 2006, used for a year and lent it to my mate for 4 years and got it back last year!

I was happy to let it go after a year because i felt very sluggish on the hills and opted to go back to derailleur bikes.
I don't usually stand on the pedals on any bike except when i need to give my backside a break.

So I let it go but was even happier to get it back last year. Why you might ask?
Comfort, comfort, comfort!
I use comfort bars and the position is the most comfortable i've got (other bikes are all drop) However i have not cycled more than 60/70 miles on it.
I still use my other bikes but the RST seems to be the first one I go to. The Rohloff is brilliant in the winter really low maintenance and worth the money for the hassle freedom.
 
My mate bought a Woodrup Chimera with belt driven Rohloff set up exactly as the RST.

If I was buying now I'd go for a Mercury and the option of disc brakes unless you want 26" wheels.

Where do you live? I am in Harrogate, North Yorkshire and you are happy to have a ride on mine (or the wive's actually as we have 2 between us!)

[docmatix]

Thanks for the feedback. I've been looking at Thorn bikes from afar for over a decade but never thought that I could justify owning one (as I 'm not into off-road touring through distant parts of Asia). After some serious thought, countless webpage reviews and a sleepless night (literally), I've bought a cobalt blue RST display model that was offered for sale on-line at a significant reduction. It's been a rushed purchase as I didn't want to hesitate and miss out on such a good deal. The bike is arriving on Friday and I'm anxious about whether I've made the right decision or whether spending such a lot on an untried bike was a mistake. I'm off work next week and, weather permitting, will put in as many miles as possible before deciding if I should keep or return it. At least I have the option of Plan B if I don't like the bike. 

[Andybg]

I do not think you will regret it as it really is a great bike to ride.

Best of luck and looking forward to further reviews

Andy

[Danneaux]

Mike!

Welcome to the Forum and to Thorn ownership.

I really feel for your present state, and we've all been there at one time or another, wishing and hoping against hope we'd made the "right" choice on a major bicycle purchase. Having the safety net of a return will help greatly, but I can still empathize with the sleepless night. I had a few of those myself after signing the purchase order for mine!

The good news is, I think you'll find the bike "rides lighter" than you might expect. Sure, it will be different from what you're used to, but sometimes that's the point, and "different" doesn't necessarily mean "bad". I would suggest trying the bike insofar as possible keeping its own merits in mind, and weighing them against the standard of what you're used to. Yes, the bike might be/feel heavier, but will have less maintenance (a huge boon during the wintry months, especially) and lower operating costs not just now, but for years to come. You don't even need to take a world tour to remote places to enjoy the benefits! The color's a real beauty, and "Sport" is this bike's middle name (literally!).

Like Andy, I think you'll not regret your decision. Even if you do, a good full week's riding will give you firsthand experience and insight into what meets your needs and what does not, and you really can't put a price on that sort of education. It will do you in good stead, regardless of the outcome now. If my experience with my Sherpa Mk2 and now Nomad Mk2 -- and that of so many other owners on the Forum -- is any indication, you'll be in for a pleasant surprise.  Fingers crossed it will meet expectations.

Looking forward to hearing how it goes; even little reports on the installment plan will be welcome!

All best wishes and luck your way!

Dan. (...who is optimistic for your happiness with the bike and helping you countdown the hours till arrival and first ride)

[triaesthete]

Hi Mike
Don't justify it, just enjoy it. 
Good move,
Ian

[Cambirder]

Terrible decision! did they have no stealth black ones left