Danneaux Project: ExtraWheel trailer as do-all cargo, charging, cam solution

[Danneaux]

Hi All!

Introduction: I have "Needs"

As you know, I tour solo in remote areas and have need for extra cargo capacity to carry the food and water needed to sustain me for extended periods away from civilization and resupply.

I also have need to generate power to keep my gadgets going away from mains power – GPS, cellphone, batteries for the water purifier, and future needs for charging a laptop or tablet.

I also have need for a mobile video camera platform to film me as I ride along, and a means to keep it going.

Some of you also know I work as a product tester and do catalog photography for outdoors products in my off-season when I'm not consulting in research methodology and applications of machine systems-control theory. Ofttimes, when testing I am required to sign non-disclosure agreements with the manufacturer, and when I photograph items for catalogs, they are often empty shells with nothing inside (cosmetic, pre-production prototypes). Rarely do I get to share the results of final, developed products that are ready for market and can by purchased by anyone.

This time is different, and I'd like to take you along on the ride, so to speak...

I have solutions (collectively known as "A Project")

Based on the ideas I have proposed to them, I have partnered on a special project with the Polish trailer producer, ExtraWheel ( http://www.extrawheel.com/ ), to create a unique solution to all these problems –- using their latest, improved trailer design to provide needed extra cargo capacity, to produce electricity as I ride, and to serve as a mobile camera platform and generate the electricity needed for extended filming as I ride, and the power needed to edit photos and film and write about my adventures in camp at the end of the day.

...And you can help and be part of the journey

Since these goals have bearing on so many of the topics covered by this list, I am going to make my build and development public here as it progresses so you can be involved as well. A sort of crowd-sourcing effort, I will share my progress and will be soliciting your own thoughts and input as it progresses. I should be able to answer many of the questions that have occurred about trailers, charging systems, and taking video from a variety of perspectives. Best of all, I can do it with a crowd of people focused on and experienced in touring. This will be an entirely new use for a trailer, and should open up some avenues for individual innovation.

Trailer as dyno-charger

At present, I have ExtraWheel's newest, most evolved trailer, chock-full of the latest improvements in design and manufacturing, as well as a fully-built wheel I have assembled, using a SON28 dynohub. B&M's e-Werk will handle charging duties this time, since a Tout Terrain The Plug 2 is not compatible with the trailer (no steerer tube in which to house it). The eWerk has the added advantage of user-adjustable voltage and current for greater charging capacity. Coupled with the TTTP2 on the Nomad, I can dedicate the trailer to high-draw/high-drain charging duties and there is a good chance it will accomplish its task without need for a heavy buffer battery (it will either recharge the laptop/tablet battery during a full day's riding at the USB 5.0vdc/1.0A setting or will power the GoPro HD Hero2 camera in the course of events, with embedded battery fallback during stops). This use would not be possible with a single charger which will also be needed for lighting duties; that task will fall to the TTTP2/PAT/New SON28/IQ Cyo R/Toplight Line Plus combo on the Nomad. The e-Werks and SON28Klassik will handle those primary duties on the trailer, perhaps by...

Trailer as solar charger; in the works...

Solar is in the works as well, pending sponsorship replies. I specified the trailer with ExtraWheel's newly-introduced rear rack, and have found it is possible to build a charging platform that will insert into this rack, secured from below via ExtraWheel's new, integral investment-cast dropout sockets. I have designed it and will braze it up in the next several weeks. Lacking that, the trailer will accept my Tubus Cargo Evo rack in addition to the ExtraWheel rack and integral pannier racks, and the handling is affected little if any with the new trailer design. The Cargo Evo is a champ at combining lightweight with strength (redesigned with new investment-cast lower mounting points) and is narrow enough at the top to match ExtraWheel's own rack, making it continuous and contiguous with theirs. It is also wide enough at the bottom to avoid fouling mounted bags and – though high and rearward from the ideal required for good handling with the ExtraWheel trailer – looks like a viable solution for mounting a lightweight solar collector. I'll be testing to see which works best – homegrown rack extension or repurposed commercial rack. The one thing I am counting on is more efficient solar generation by mounting the panel on the trailer, where it will be out of my shadow during the day.

Trailer as nighttime charger

This project will also allow me to pursue nighttime charging. In the desert and coastal regions where I often tour, constant night winds are a given. In the Great Basin, afternoon gusts of 39mph/63kph are common, dying down in early evening and often returning to those levels through the night. The trailer can be easily inverted once the bags are detached, and I am deep into designing and making detachable fabric blades that can be attached to the spokes to turn the trailer's dynohub wheel into a power-generating windmill for nighttime charging duties.

Trailer as...trailer (cargo)

Of course, the panniers mounted on the trailer will give me the capacity needed to haul the food and water I require for my extended desert crossings, and I have a big one coming up next year.

Goals and Methodology

When I approached ExtraWheel with my ideas, they felt the whole project was sufficiently innovative to sponsor me with a hefty discount (I paid the difference out of pocket and all shipping; I did the same for the other components...this has not been a cheap Inquiry), and I'd like to share the development with Forum members in the hope my results will aid in choosing solutions to meet your differing needs, as well as a means to directly compare power-generating and charging systems. There has not yet been a direct comparison of these products and approaches holding other factors constant. In testing the most popular solutions at once, I will be able to tell you all which products are best tailored for a specific purpose so you can save time and money on the selection and get what you want for a given purpose -– all these products are good, and each excels in a particular use. It should be a fun task, and we can all benefit from the results.

This is all made possible by hanging a charging system on the trailer for direct, realtime comparison with similar components mounted on the bike, and it is only possible in my case through use of the ExtraWheel because its large wheel (a bicycle front wheel) is the only type suited for use in the rough, sandy, and sometimes boggy terrain where I will be testing and using the device. Also, by building the dynohub into what amounts to a second bicycle wheel spinning at the same speed (same size), I will be able to collect and analyze data that are directly comparable.

The acid test for my ideas and development will be my next big extended mountains-to-desert tour, scheduled for late-Spring 2013. In the meantime, throughout this Fall and Winter, I will be developing my innovations and will post on my progress, seeking feedback and answering questions on the trailer, the charging system, and camera mounts as they develop.

Where can I buy this stuff?

Meantime, it is worth noting that SJS Cycles/Thorn, the sponsor of this list, sells most of the items mentioned:
ExtraWheel Voyager trailer:
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/page/find/?name=ExtraWheel&page=1
Tout Terrain The Plug 2:
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/page/find/?name=tout%20terrain&page=1
Busch Und Muller eWerk charging unit:
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/page/find/?name=ewerk&page=1
B&M IQ Cyo headlight:
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/page/find/?name=iq%20cyo&page=1
B&M Toplight Line Plus taillight:
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/busch-and-muller-toplight-line-plus-rear-dynamo-light-prod23284/

ExtraWheel also sell through a dealer network or direct from their site, here: http://www.extrawheel.com/

Another line of inquiry: Trailer as touring-bike substitute

One goal of my testing will be to see if ExtraWheel's trailer, equipped with power-generating capability, would be a suitable substitute for a dedicated, conventional touring bike on non-expedition tours. Not everyone wants or needs a dedicated touring bike, but would like to tour occasionally with the bike they already own, which might not be suitable otherwise or without extensive modification. With up to 40-53 liters' capacity, an ExtraWheel could easily carry enough for conventional touring, provided one had access to resupplies of food and water. I have purchased two additional sets of Ortlieb panniers –- BikePacker Plus (Cordura fabric, QL-2 support system) and BikePacker Classic (traditional truck-tarp fabric, QL-1 support system) and a 13l Ortlieb trailer-racktop dry sack to use with the ExtraWheel, all intended to answer the following “what if” questions...

What if you could...

1) Use a lightweight bike without racks or panniers and go touring at the drop of a hat without having to change anything on the bike? ...and you could do this with *any* bike, even a folder or recumbent or a tandem. You could own a whole stable of bikes by owning just one...and a power-generating trailer. Kind of the ultimate in ultralight...with no sacrifices either way. Once in camp, unhook the trailer and ride around the area on your superlight racer; the tent and stove and your warm bed await you back at camp. The trailer will accept anything from 700C wheels and 19mm tires to 26" wheels and 2.5 knobbies for off-road. One of these would make a nice club purchase, for use by members as needed.

2) When you hooked up the trailer, you had a full charging and lighting system for *that* bike, all powered by the trailer's dynohub? Just clamp on a headlight, twine the wire around the frame tubes, and plug-in as you attach the trailer. Done.

3) You could transfer it to or from from any bike as quickly as you could swap the rear wheel's quick-release? ...and have lighting, power, and conventional (pannier-based) luggage capacity? I see this as a nice way to go touring with friends who don't own touring bikes, but would like to try bicycle camping. I could ride my Nomad with racks and panniers, while they use my trailer and bags, with spare tent. They end up getting the experience on their present bike, which fits them, at no cost for the trial.

4) Fly on vacation carrying your "touring bike" (take-down trailer) in your luggage, then attaching it to either a rental or a locally-bought bike when you landed? The ExtraWheel knocks-down small, and would fit inside conventional luggage, unlike a longer trailer.

5) Carry a touring load and have the bike handling suffer less 'cos the load is carried in part on the rear axle? -- the load leans with the bike, which carries only a part of it, down low and on the axle.

6) Whatever bike you hooked the trailer to would suddenly have a dynohub and lights? You could even swap the bare trailer from bike to bike when you wanted lights at night; it is the lightest trailer currently on the market. Suddenly, it wouldn't matter if your dynohub wheel was built into a 26" or 700C wheel...you've got it all, and as many as you'd like! The trailer will accept any size 700C or 26" wheel or tire, and the weight of the unladen trailer is dependent on wheel choice.

7) If you already had a bike with lights and charging system...imagine having *twice* the charging power with no need for heavy storage batteries?

8 ) No need to buy or install racks and panniers on your bike. Yes, you could add a handlebar bag, or a rear rack and rack-pack or a saddlebag...but you might not have to, depending in the length and location of your tour.

9) What if the trailer also solar-charged a storage battery? Or trickle-charged appliances as you rode and while parked?

10) If you need extra capacity for world touring...simply hook up the electric-generating trailer and go. You'd have enough capacity to haul an additional 70 lbs in two 40liter bags and a 13liter rack sausage -- 53 liters of additional storage for extended water or food, making it possible to go for lengthy periods away from any resupply. The ExtraWheel also provides a spare front wheel that can be used as a direct replacement if the bike's front wheel is damaged, or it can be cannibalized for use on the rear. With lots of wheel clearance and no brakes, the trailer will easily tolerate a ratty, damaged wheel until proper repairs can be made.

11) What if the trailer charged at night (windmill power) and you had full batteries or charged appliances awaiting you when you awakened in the morning?

Lots -- and more -- to ponder here...

These are some of the questions I'll be investigating going forward. Meantime, there's a myriad of small details I am also working on. For example, it would be nice to have a dyno-powered LED taillight for the trailer, something like another B&M Toplight Line Plus would be ideal, but there's a problem. The dyohub produces AC current, and the LEDs require DC current. Usually, the AC to DC rectification takes place in a headight, and the taillight attaches to the light, sipping DC current only. Without a headlight to do the job, I will need to make an AC to DC rectifier to power the taillight directly, and am in-process on that now. It will work in parallel with the e-Werk doing charging duties so I can have a light running all the time if I wish; the two LEDs behind prismatic taillight lens draw very little current, and shouldn't affect charging. I will incorporate an SPST switch in the rectifier so I can turn off the taillight for charging comparisons.

So, lots of developments here at Danneaux Labs, and I'll be looking forward to your input and feedback as the project progresses.

Best,

Dan.

[jags]

My GOD Dan your a pure genius, you my friend should be worth a fortune.
of course you know at this early stage people will be stealing all your ideas and more than likely taking the credit for it the nature of people. but at least the guys on this forum will know your the main man 
the very best of luck dan with this project it can only be a winner and i cant wait to see the finish trailer .

[in4]

Very elegant set of solutions there Dan. Many congratulations offered. I can only begin to imagine the amount of thinking time you've devoted to it. Now, we really should think of a proper name for it. Cue the ad' men on here!

[Andybg]

Fantastic project Dan

I will be intruiged to see how you get on with the project. The use of wind power is something that has always interested me and certainly for the lower power usages needed while touring it must be a viable addition to the project.

What are your views on the extra wheel trailer? How does it tow and what are your views on quality. It seems such a good idea but I feel the cost is high unless the quality of the "out of the box" components is good.

I am sure the forum members will be watching this with interest and will be there to help where they can.

All the best

Andy

[triaesthete]

Hi Dan
this made a great morning read. Lots of left field thinking, especially the windmill idea and designing out the batteries. No wonder you've been busy.
Good luck with it all,
Ian

[richie thornger]

WOW!
Arrrgh!
Something else for me to think about.
I hadn't really given an extra wheel any thought. Not even when Il Padrone sent me a fantastic pic of one yesterday. I just saw it as something extra, more weight,more tyres, more problems etc. The fact that you can unhook and have your unloaded bike back is a revelation.
As for your custom build power ideas. I'm blown away, what a wheely good idea. The Spinning Genny, will definitely be getting some thought for part 2 of my tour in a few years. If there is a stockist in Hackney it might get tried out this weekend!
Chapeau! Dan
Wish you all the luck with it's evolution.
One for the road: How loud is the wind powered phase going to be, or will the wind be loud enough to drown it out?
Can it be turned into a Unicycle;)

[il padrone]

I don't want to throw a spanner in the windmill but I 'm not clear how you'd rig up an Xtrawheel to become an overnight wind generator   It would seem to require rather a lot of support struts to keep it off the ground, in particular to get the elevation to catch the stronger breezes. It's a bit academic as out in the outback on my recent tour most days were quite windy but at sunset the wind dropped right out to give us very calm nights.

Like this perhaps??





I did make use of the Xtrawheel to provide a good clear mounting place for the solar panel to charge the Powermonkey Extreme. Held under the straps on the Bikepacker Classic panniers it caught all the sun for most of the day to charge the battery quite well. In contrast to the E-werk it was charging steadily all the while, even during rest stops and our lunch break.

[Danneaux]

Hi All!

In answer to recent questions, I can expand on my current-model project ExtraWheel trailer's build quality and components in some detail in text and photos. Those wanting the Executive Summary can simply skim the bolded bits; details follow below them...

1) Weld quality has been improved and is now on a level with the joints on my Thorn Nomad.

2) Paint finish is improved over earlier versions; it is evenly applied with full coverage and is nicely glossy throughout; the completely sealed finish bodes well for long-term durability and rivals that of many complete bicycles for smooth application.

3) The cro-mo trailer fork ends are now closed and bespoke investment cast pieces replace the previous stamped-tab dropouts and fender/mudguard mounts. My trailer was perfectly aligned, and these new pieces were full of thoughtful touches -- for example, the dropouts each include integrated mounts for the flag (which will help me greatly in my electrification project and use of the trailer as a video camera platform). Also, the mudguard strut mounts now include hex sockets that make attaching the fender stays or the accessory rack much easier for the end-user to accomplish; they hold the nylock nuts from turning as you tighten the flanged buttonhead allen bolts. The taper-section supports for the bags are now cleanly and fully mitered to the trailer frame for full contact; bag mounting rails remain 10mm to match popular cro-mo racks by Thorn, Tubus, and Surly, making it easy to fit popular panniers.

4) The included mudguard/stay set is much more fully developed than previously and is smoothly finished with no sharp edges and is very sturdy; the 'guard is stable and rattle-free. A very useful mudflap is now included to prevent road spray being flung off the rear tire. The 'guard itself is a high quality plastic/alu laminate without bridges; the stays can be set and adjusted as necessary along the side-bead of the fender blade, and release if the fender becomes jammed with debris.

5) The oil-filled bronze bushings at the bearing points are user field-replaceable with ordinary tools (hammer, punch, or vise). The oil-filled bushings use spring tension to center on stainless spherical ball-joints. and the pivots can be lubed with chain oil. When combined with the spherical hitch, the assembly approximates a rod end, heim joint, or rose joint. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_end_bearing ...and... http://bulletproofsteering.com/rodendhistory.html

6) The rear rack has been very nicely designed and built, but it could be improved. I would suggest that when a rack is used, the nylon 'guard spacer should be replaced with a solid spacer, perhaps made from extruded aluminum. My vibrational analysis shows the present plastic spacer will not prevent flex that could lead to long-term failure of the forward rack mounting tang, made of sheet stock. One could substitute a more rigid spacer and so prevent a potential fatigue issue from the start. It was not a problem, but I should mention I had to spread and align the rear rack mounting legs to get a good fit on the fender stay mounting bosses. Extrawheel are examining and working on the rack design just as they are working to continuously improve and further develop the trailer.

7) A five-year warranty was implemented this year; same as on Ortlieb bags. Details are on the Extrawheel website.

8 ) Online support has been expanded with videos and service guides for proper operation and replacement of the oil-filled bronze bushings, should that ever become necessary.

9) Expanded "hitch" options now include quick-releases in two different widths (standard and overwidth), bolt-on nuts in a variety of axle threadings (as for my tandem), and a new option to attach a hitch to a frame's mudguard or rack eyelets.

10) The supplied wheel and tire included were definitely not high quality, but are serviceable and a good value for the money. The complete wheel amounts to a €14 option. Keep that in mind. Given the low cost, I think they did a good job on it. Since the wheel is key to the trailer, it is worth spending a little time looking at it in detail...

The Included Wheel: Discussion and Analysis
It is a basic wheel that gets the job done in a straightforward fashion at minimum cost and is a good choice to get going very cheaply. If I were going on a world tour, I would likely go with a higher-quality wheel/tire (and I did for this project). However, the requirements for a trailer are different and generally lower than for a loaded bicycle -- the wheel trails the bike rather than leading it, is less heavily laden, there are no brake blocks for the rim to hit, and the trailer is very wide so an out-of-true wheel can be accommodated far more readily than on a bicycle.

Wheel Details and Materials
Like many machine-built wheels, the hub needs adjustment and lubrication, and it uses 36, 14-ga spokes woven and laced 3-cross. Extrawheel specify Taiwanese CN brand ( http://www.cnspoke.com/ ) galvanized steel spokes -- not stainless. Mine are chrome-plated steel with an "S" branding on the heads. Spoke tension was low but very even, and was easily brought up to tension. I do think it would make an immediately serviceable replacement front wheel for the bicycle in the event of an emergency (an "Extra Wheel"). The rim itself is a nice extrusion with very evenly machined sidewalls, brake wear indicators, and a nice satin-anodized center finish. It is made in China by TάV-compliant Jinhua Stars Alloy Rims Co.,Ltd ( http://www.stars-rim.com ), and is their J18DB or J19DB model ( http://starsrim.no11.cuttle.com.cn/english/product1.asp?id=433 ), marked as suitable for 1.75/1.95 tires, 24.4mm at the sidewalls; 19mm between the sidewalls. Due to the aero rim section, the spokes are unusually short, so it would be hard to cannibalize or swap the rim or spokes to the rear, meaning the most-stressed wheel does not benefit from having and "extra" wheel. The Joytech hubs have aluminum shells with countersunk spoke holes, user-serviceable bearings, and decent labyrinth seals achieved by axle-fixed dust caps, provided the hub is fully packed with grease. If I were starting from scratch, I would build a wheel with the same or similar rim and spoke to what I used on the bike, but this would (did) add greatly to the overall cost (for this project). As it is the wheel and tire provided by ExtraWheel are of similar or better quality to that provided on the BOB-series of trailers. However, the larger diameter of the ExtraWheel means it will be less likely to drop into potholes and such, and will roll more easily over obstacles than a smaller wheel. Because of this, is is a fair assumption the larger wheel will be less stressed than one of smaller diameter.

Given the small €14 price difference between a trailer alone and one with this wheel, I think ExtraWheel made a good choice in selecting a hub and rim with 36 spokes for durability, and the selection of the deep cross-section Swift Arriv rim was a good choice; it is sturdy for the weight and the thick aero section will stand up well to vertical impacts if the trailer is used hard in rough terrain.

Remember, unlike a bicycle's rider, no trailer can "post" or stand on the pedals when encountering an obstacle, so it will tend to crash through holes and over bumps. Larger wheels and fatter tires run at low pressure help.

The Thailand-made Deestone ( http://www.deestone.com/ ) D804 26x1.95 mixed-tread hybrid tire supplied with the 26" wheel has a relatively smooth center tread for quiet running on pavement and aggressive side knobs for off-road use. Given the trailer wheel is undriven, I think a smooth-treaded tire would have been more appropriate and would have also reduced weight and rolling resistance and improved cornering on pavement. However, as a spare for MTB use, this may well be the better choice for the overall market.

The Schraeder-valve tube will ensure easy replacement anywhere in the world and in places where the smaller Presta valved tubes are unavailable. If you are running presta-valve tubes on your bike you will need to either use an adapter on the valve or pump, or switch to a presta valve and rim washer on the trailer wheel to keep all the same and minimize inconvenience.

Extrawheel offer alternatives. The Extrawheel trailer is available in a variety of configurations, from a bare frame with included mudguard, to a basic model with the wheel described above. Beyond that, options include panniers in addition to the basic trailer, with or without wheel. The Polish-made Crosso panniers ( http://www.crosso.pl/pages/en/about-us.php ) formerly optional with Extrawheel trailers have been replaced by Ortlieb Back Roller Classics or BikePacker Classics. A full range of Ortlieb's other offerings are available for purchase separately from their site. The net slings and canoe dry sacks of the original model are history, replaced with the introduction of the Voyager model.

Buyers can also source their own wheels from spare bikes or from eBay. Sometimes high-quality front wheels are available at very good prices when buyers change to disc brakes or for other reasons. A quick search for "Deore front wheel" on ebay.co.uk shows nice examples closing at £13-£22/€16-€27.

Tire Pressure: Oh-so-different for trailers & bikes
The tire provides the entire suspension on a rigid trailer and they carry less than on a bicycle, so it pays to pressurize them accordingly. The trailer carries far less weight than the bicycle's wheels, so there is no reason to run its tire at the same pressures. I found using anything approaching normal pressures on the 26x2.0 Schwalbe Dureme I am using was asking for trouble -- the trailer would easily launch and go airborne when hitting the smallest obstacle. While this caused no harm in practice, it is startling for observers and ultimately hard on the trailer and pannier contents as they are jolted with each landing. I found reducing pressure to 20-25psi was ideal, and pretty much ended all "unscheduled launches" without increasing rolling resistance at the tested weights. I'm still dialing-in pressures, and should have some pressure-weight correlates to offer. I need to reset my test rig to see what pressures allow a 15% "drop" according to the Frank Berto method I've long used for setting tire pressure. See: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=frank%20berto%20tire-pressure%20chart&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CD8QFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bccclub.org%2Fdocuments%2FTireinflation.pdf&ei=zBmDUKekFc3LtAbyzYHAAw&usg=AFQjCNG0brdux1kpIIRk4JMOvrS1cmY86w ...and... http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=frank%20berto%20tire-pressure%20chart&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDoQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bikequarterly.com%2Fimages%2FTireDrop.pdf&ei=zBmDUKekFc3LtAbyzYHAAw&usg=AFQjCNGL_6p-7qkIU4Jd555EVfa1UXs5Lg I think something less than 20psi might well do the job depending on the load being carried.

For me, the deciding factors in choosing the Extrawheel were the large wheel size, the ground clearance, the short overall length and light weight, it takes standard panniers rather than having a platform, and it has a single wheel, making it suitable for this project. It can also be packed with the bike for shipping, unlike a larger platform trailer. I have two 2-wheel trailers of my own design, but they have 16" wheels and are unsuitable for really rough ground, where the double-track means the trailer wheels hit everything the bike misses and they can tip over independent of the bike (an advantage and disadvantage at once).

Detail photos attached below; ride and handling reports with video links to follow in a later post.

Best,

Dan.

[jags]

looking forward to video and next batch of of photos,

[Andybg]

Thanks for the information Dan. The quality definetly looks good and I think I will be adding one of these to the wish list.

I am certaily looking forward to how you fin it is practice. In respect to trailers, I love the idea of the extra practicality but as you know am still looking for one that ticks all the right boxes in respect to ability and joy of towing

Andy

[JimK]

I love this idea of converting a wheel with a dynamo hub into a wind turbine for overnight battery charging!

How about using a couple fenders as turbine blades?

[jags]

i would say dan is keeping this one close to his chest until he has it  to perfection
i'm just waiting for him to design a pair of 100% easy fit easy take off overshoes.

[richie thornger]

http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/competition-how-far-would-you-have-to-ride-to-generate-enough-energy-to-power-an-electric-oven/
Looks like the bar has been raised Dan. what's your solution to this?

[JimK]

I have a rowing machine that can display power in watts. I can keep up 100 watts pretty much indefinitely but 140 watts is a lot tougher! An electric oven! That'll depend on temperature etc. but those things have to be scale of 1000 watts, i.e. me on the rower for 10 hours. That's probably the same as me riding on the level at around 10 mph or a touch more. So roughly 100 miles of riding, or 130km.

Given that air resistance goes up as what the fourth power of speed or some such, doubling one's speed cuts the time in half but pushes the power up by say 16, so the energy dissipated goes up by 8. The faster one traverses a fixed distance, the more energy one uses.

That's a silly contest!

I was out on a night ride last week with with my 2010 Edelux light & SON dynamo hub. I couldn't bake bread but it sure lit up the road nicely!
 

[Andybg]

Yep I agree a pretty stupid competition.

I think you are in the ball park of 100w giving around 10mph which means you would be riding somwhere in the region of 300miles to use the same amount of energy that an oven would use

I think sprint cyclists can produce somewhere in the 2000w range. On the rower I can hold 220 watt avarage over a 10km distance and that hurts.

My sugestion is a wood burning oven. 1km cycle to the forest. 1km cycle back. Burn wood for 1 hour.

Andy