Author Topic: navigation aid world tour gps?  (Read 2997 times)

faema

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navigation aid world tour gps?
« on: October 07, 2012, 07:13:03 am »
Hiya, I,m in the initial stages of planning a long cycle tour, not sure which continents yet.UK-NZ or S.America.
 I rather take the slower routes in the hope that they are more scenic with less traffic and more opportunity to wild camp.
   i,d like a heads up on the mode of navigation anyone may advise on.
  I know old school maps will have to accompany me however this technological age has thrown up a few more option.
  As far as I can gather some gps systems are available with maps which use lots of power and are expensive,also gps which has to be loaded with planned routes via a computer , these are way cheaper.
 I am prepared to travel with a small lap top and solar panel in the hope of keeping batteries topped up.
 advice please of experiences.
  low cost.
  minimum battery draw.
  reliable.
   easy to use.
  can take you off the beaten track.
  would an IPhone be an option? (don,t have one).and do away with the need of a computer or dedicated gps?
 OR just stick to maps.
    ???

richie thornger

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Re: navigation aid world tour gps?
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2012, 08:40:44 am »
Hi, I'm off on a multi year trip in a few weeks too.
I am taking a Garmin Edge 800 a small laptop, a smart phone and an ipod touch. All of these can be used for navigation purposes and all have their plus points but for me the most important things are PAPER MAPS and COMPASS. Anything electronic needs power and when that's gone your navigation is gone.
ipod touch: only works on wifi. OK to check out a general route when at a hostel/cafe etc and you can cache some of the map but after that its gone. Plus point is it can be charged from a hub dynamo.
smartphoneI have just replaced my dead iphone with a Huawei Ascend G300. £100 brand new unlocked to any network. You can buy a local sim card in each country and have maps on the go. Unfortunately the gps uses up so much battery you probably wouldn't get a full day of "always on" maps. Signal might not be available everywhere you travel. Because its an android phone you can download Google maps to the phone for the region you are travelling in. Again can be charged by a hub dynamo.
Laptop you can get maps that you can download but laptop needs a lot of power, wont charge from a hub dynamo and you still need to know where you are on the map. OK for planning the bigger / whole journey or getting an idea of a whole day, but no good for on the move.
Garmin Edge 800 I have owned the earlier 705 and now the 800. They are purpose built GPS/Head units for bicycles. Should be fairly waterproof but they do break down if really wet. Both are useless for planning a route. They will send you 50 miles instead of 10 miles, they will send you round and round in endless circles. They are good for finding your final destination in a city. They are good to get you heading in the right direction. They are fantastic for telling you where you are. You can download free open source maps for most countries including contours. Very handy. Download all your maps before you go. If I use mine for route planning I usually choose the city/town I'm heading for and let it plan the route and use it as a guide. But I NEVER rely on its suggestions of what roads to take. Nice touches are sunset and sunrise times and automatic change of clock depending on what country / time zone you are in. Battery will last all day, sometimes two if you are careful. Easily charged from a hub dynamo. I use mine to record my route. So I can look back after my trip to see exactly where I have been. If you sync your gps clock to your camera and video clocks you can easily geotag all of your films and videos. If you have it mounted on the handlebars you will get a million and one people ask you what the shiny thing is for and may occasionally light up some eyes with £ signs. Always take it off the bike when you go anywhere :)
PAPER MAPS & COMPASS Providing you can actually find somewhere to buy one. They are the easiest to look at for planning a whole days riding with as much detail as possible. Easy to look at alternative routes. Easy to find other interesting things you didn't know you were looking for. Such as rivers, mountains, ruins, lakes, churches etc. Don't need charging. Not very good in the rain and the wind even if you have a map pouch. A good compass is essential.
I'm sure some other people will have their own ideas as well. Good luck with your trip.

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il padrone

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Re: navigation aid world tour gps?
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2012, 08:53:57 am »
Laptops, Ipads and smart phones chew through the battery when using GPS. Maps are readily available through Google maps etc.

Garmin bike-oriented GPS's (500, 700, 800) are quite good for the purpose, but require battery charging every couple of days. This can be done readily if you have a dynohub and e-werk charger, or solar panel and battery (Powermonkey). I much prefer my Garmin eTrex Vista Hcx with AA batteries (readily available in most places) and a 25 hr battery life. I have the detailed map for all of Australia at 1:100,000 but it did cost me $200 from Garmin. Similar maps are available for other continents/regions.

Despite all the technology available, there is still a serious role for the humble paper map. GPS is great for accurate location of your position and to measure distances to other places. They are also great to upload your route maps for others. However they do not give a good overall idea of your surroundings and the options for travel routes or other destinations. The paper map is the best way to get a 'global' view of your surroundings.


Latest amazing thing - my new camera (Lumix) has GPS, so all photos have GPS location details !!
« Last Edit: October 07, 2012, 08:56:41 am by il padrone »

Cambirder

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Re: navigation aid world tour gps?
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2012, 06:22:36 pm »
I would look at something like the Garmin Etrex 20. Although not a cycle specific unit it has a couple of advantages over something like an Edge 800. Its far cheaper and it uses AA batteries so you don't have charging issues. The main issue with all these things is the maps, because the global maps they come with are useless. You can download free ones, the UK open streetmaps are very good but for sme parts of the world you will probably need to purchase some from Garmin and they are not cheep.

Danneaux

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Re: navigation aid world tour gps?
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2012, 07:03:08 pm »
Hi Faema!

Though still in the early stages, your upcoming trip sounds fabulous, and I hope you'll keep us updated as your plans develop.

Looking at your question from the frame of my own experience, a few things jumped out at me when you said...
Quote
I rather take the slower routes in the hope that they are more scenic with less traffic and more opportunity to wild camp.
...this is more the sort of thing I do, where I am away from any sort of consistent power sources for a good long while. Just as Richie and Pete (Il Padrone) have alluded, gadgets like GPS take power, and they don't last very long on a set of batteries. The solution is to charge the batteries for such gadgets as you ride, either by dynohub, solar, buffer-battery (charged from mains power) or some other means.

This all goes to show the importance of taking paper maps of some sort as a backup. batteries fail, and then where would you be? I think a good compass with adjustable declination is essential, too -- even a cheap compass goes far toward orienting one for sure (as a check, even if you have a very good sense of direction and magnetic orientation as I do; not something you want to leave entirely to "feelings"). This is the route I go, powering-on the GPS for just a few seconds at a time for a quick check of my position against my paper maps or as a check against the built-in maps. Even traveling to a previously marked waypoint, I use the GPS this way to save juice. The paper maps and compass are my proven fallback, as there isn't a living soul to ask directions from where I go.

I use a Garmin Oregon 400T GPS with touchscreen, 3-D colored/contoured maps and downloadable satellite maps that can overlay any existing or purchased Garmin-format maps. I run an 8G micro-SD card (a spare in reserve, depending on where I'll be touring), and typically have it loaded with the topo maps for all of North America (Canada, US, upper part of Mexico) or all of Europe and park maps as well. I then have an automobile (roads) profile I overlay on the topo maps that includes the city maps for North America or Europe, with another for Benelux, or the fietspads for all The Netherlands. The GPS maps costs add up; at full list, the GPS and maps totaled USD$1,200 at the time I got it in 2010 (updates have been free, thank goodness, and I got the GPS on sale at a wholesaler for half price). It is the map costs that are so high.

There are ways to save on the cost of paper maps...

One of the great things about Garmin GPS units is they not only offer lifetime updates, they have two really good free mapping programs that will run on a PC -- MapSource and BaseCamp. The latter is really handy for cyclists, in offering tilt-contour capability that brings contour lines to life so you know exactly where that mountain pass is, or how steep that big climb really will be. I plot a course in either of these two applications, then transfer the routes and waypoints to my GPS. It is a two-way street, so you can take a trip and then transfer your waypoints or tracks to the PC map upon your return.  These maps can then all be printed out and so comprise your "paper" maps without spending an additional penny.

This has worked out very well for me in the more remote places I generally travel here in North America. However, since I start these journeys from my front door, there's a lot of road mileage to get out of the way as well. For that portion of my journeys, I use Microsoft Streets & Trips, DeLorme Street Atlas and Topo-series software, GoogleEarth, GoogleMaps, and BingMaps. I print what I need to take with me, and -- since inkjet inks are water-soluble -- make sure I put them in two zip-top bags, reversed top-for-bottom to keep water out. They're stored in my waterproof Ortliebs or put in my waterproof Ortlieb map case when in-use. Each of the above allow routing overlays and GPS waypoints to be printed on either a map or (in the case of the online services) a satellite photo overlay. I found the above combo to be very helpful in my Great Basin tours, and correlated the map data with over 150 years of state hydrology reports and well registrations so I would have a very good idea where potable water was "supposed" to be. In fact, overlaying the satellite imagery on the well data showed persistent spots of green vegetation, even in otherwise arid areas, and I was able to find non-alkali "ground seeps" and even small springs in the very areas where they "should" have been. Yay!

GoogleEarth/GoogleMaps StreetView is tremendously useful fir planning in advance at home to get a look-see at confusing intersections or even to read street signs -- which often differ in real life compared to map designations (I often find local names are used in place of County Road numbers on maps, for example).

My bigger trips require 3-4 months of fairly intense planning, and are worth it in peace of mind and navigational ease. If I decide to deviate from my planned course, then I still have a baseline to return to. Before leaving, I have printed and electronic packets showing my itinerary, route, attached maps, and so forth that can be forward to SAR teams if I fail to check in after a predetermined absence. When I can connect, I call home my GPS coordinates to friends or family who are tracking my route, so they can see where I am, will now where I am headed, and can track my progress accordingly in the event something goes really wrong. This may not be a need for you; I go alone and to really remote areas where I am unlikely to see or make contact with anyone else for long periods. A mishap in such circumstances could quickly become serious, so I take the precaution of making sure someone knows where I "should" be and will take action on my behalf if they fail to hear from me. These trips are supposed to be fun, and I do wish to take more in the future and not endanger others or incur a huge expense in the effort to find me. <-- This last has some major implications. More and more cash-short American search efforts are being billed to the missing recreationalist, and search costs often exceed USD$100,000. I do not want to incur that sort of bill. I also carry insurance to cover the USD$22,000 average cost of a helicopter evacuation, which can otherwise be billed direct to the rescuee. Many of the roads I go on are impassable by four-wheel vehicles for much of the year, and accessible only by high-clearance four-wheel-drive in better weather. Air searches and evacs are the most common form of extraction in those places for a number of reasons.

One of the problems I run into which you might not is cell-phone connections. I am usually so removed from any towers that the phone is rendered useless for voice or text communication, and I deliberately run an old 3G CDMA Kyocera SE47 "dumb" phone because it connects far better than my nearly current Motorolas. Even so, I am often without comms for a day or two and then get it only with line-of-sight if I deliberately climb a mount so I can get a connection -- if I am lucky. Smartphones with GPS often need tower-triangulation for the GPS coordinates to work properly. If you're out of range, the GPS may not operate or be as accurate as you would wish. For this reason, for trips away from reliable cell coverage, I would suggest a standalone GPS rather than a smartphone with GPS capability. Returning to why I chose the Garmin Oregon 400T...I found a GPS oriented primarily toward hiking rather than cycling or automotive use better suited my needs for back-of-beyond use. Each GPS on the market seems to be optimized for a particular use, with other uses secondary. It worked out best for me and the kind of riding I do to have a GPS oriented toward 3-D topo use first, with on-road capability playing a supporting role.  As such, I don't have uploadable fitness data and such, but I can plug in a Garmin bike pickup if I wish and I have more navigational capability than the biking-oriented GPSs. Compared to the car-oriented GPSs, I lack voice prompts and audio capability, but I can read and see the turn and real-time routing indications and have full Topo data with satellite imagery overlay capability.

One of the handiest uses for GPS is what I call "casual navigation" while on-tour. For example, I prefer to stealth-camp, placing my tent and bike below sagebrush height. I locate my latrine away from camp for a number of reasons, and this can render my camp invisible from 30 meters away. I mark the camp with a waypoint when I arrive, and take the GPS and phone with me when nature calls. It would be tragic to find myself lost within stone's throw my (invisible, unseeable) camp and find myself without food, water, or shelter because I could not find it again. Waiting till daybreak to see my tracks wouldn't help, as shoes leave no marks on sun-baked playa. Often, there may be no mountains or other outstanding geological features in sight, and one clump of sagebrush look like the next. I can easily imagine such a situation, and don't wish to find myself in that scenario.

Most modern GPS units can be downloaded with commercial waypoints as well, and these can be really handy. Imagine keying in "Lodging" and having the names, addresses, and contact phone numbers of hotels and motels appear with waypoint icons on your screen. Same for "Geologic Features", "Stores", "Cities", and myriad other places. Using this feature has saved me a lot of time. I found the "Lodging Finder" particularly helpful when a convention was being held in a destination town and hotel after hotel closed due to full bookings. Without having to find a phone booth and directory listing, I just called each on the list till I found one with a vacancy, made and confirmed my reservation, and cycled in a relaxed manner to my night's lodging using my waypoint routefinder. Magic!

Pete (Il Padrone) put it very well when he wrote...
Quote
Despite all the technology available, there is still a serious role for the humble paper map. GPS is great for accurate location of your position and to measure distances to other places. They are also great to upload your route maps for others. However they do not give a good overall idea of your surroundings and the options for travel routes or other destinations. The paper map is the best way to get a 'global' view of your surroundings.

Hope this helps.

Best,

Dan. (who would simply be lost without his nav aids...)
« Last Edit: October 08, 2012, 07:14:33 am by Danneaux »

Danneaux

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Re: navigation aid world tour gps?
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2012, 07:20:40 am »
Hi All, and Faema in particular!

I ran out of time to include this earlier today, but there is another way to get maps into your Garmin essentially for free...especially if you already have paper maps of the areas you wish to travel.

How?

By making your own custom maps using Google Earth to match a scanned overlay of your paper map.  Here -- take a look at what Garmin says about this free, DIY process...

Quote
Transfer Paper or Electronic Maps to Your Device

Put paper maps on your compatible device with Custom Maps — a free and simple process that transforms paper and electronic maps into downloadable maps that you can transfer to your device. Custom Maps are created using our map-drawing technology to georeference map images.

Custom Maps offer practicality and convenience in everyday situations.

    For college students: Download campus maps from university websites and transfer the custom map to your handheld device for easy navigating around campus.
    For hiking trips: Transfer a paper map of a nearby state park for added safety and security while on the trail.
    For fun and education: Download a map of an area as it once appeared, such as the St. Louis World's Fair map, to explore that area as it once was and compare it to how it appears today.

Full description and step-by-step instructions are included from this link: http://www.garmin.com/us/products/onthetrail/custommaps

Hope this helps. It isn't that labor-intensive, and it is essentially free, provided you have a compatible, updated GPS, a scanner, and access to GoogleEarth.

Best,

Dan.

StuntPilot

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Re: navigation aid world tour gps?
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2012, 11:45:59 am »
Faema - sounds like you have a great trip coming up. Agree that a gps can be a problem regarding batteries, but agree with Dan. A hub dynamo, The Plug II, and a descent cache battery the problem should be solved. Your solar panel may do the trick too depending on sunshine.

I like the paper map approach and also have a gps. The Garmin eTrex 30 is a great unit for walking and cycling. Similar to the eTrex 30 it has a barometric altimeter - useful when grinding up mountain passes, and flying down the other side! I searched for free maps and found this site which is pretty comprehensive.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.raumbezug.eu%2Fag%2Finternet%2FosmGarmin.htm

Open Cycle Map project has some great cycle specific maps but limited to Western Europe at the moment. The maps are downloadable for a charge.

http://shop.opencyclemap.org/

Off the beaten track I would rely on local maps, gps, and asking around on the way. The iPhone option is possible, however you will get much better battery life out of a handheld gps.

faema

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Re: navigation aid world tour gps?
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2012, 04:43:45 pm »
Thanks everyone for your thoughts and recommendations.
 There's a bit of a steep learning curve here i fear when it comes to electronics for me.
Its a while til i go and there's a bunch of other stuff I have to source first. I,ll put the tech. stuff on hold for a minute and see how I go with weekend ride outs from London to the coast avoiding major routes.
  This is great resource here. so much info.
 p.s I read a personal opinion here somewhere on Thorns bb eccentric fixture and have to agree that Santos came up with a better design.(I wonder how many folk have overtightened the lock bolts and stripped the thread.or perhaps under tightened them in fear.)
 regards..