Author Topic: Dyno Lights vs Battery  (Read 4256 times)

keleher

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Dyno Lights vs Battery
« on: September 29, 2012, 11:56:10 pm »
I have an eDelux from 2 years ago, which lots of folk appear to rave about. However, it's nothing next to the MagicShine 872, which is supposed to be 1600. I think my Minewt 600 is brighter. Are there any published comparisons of dynamo lights vs recent battery-powered? 

I understand the allure of having an always-on light and not having to worry about batteries, but Amazon is carrying a $40 flashlight that is ostensibly 3800 lumens. Even assuming that's 2 or 3 times exaggeration, its got to be many times brighter than my edelux.

Andre Jute

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Re: Dyno Lights vs Battery
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2012, 01:00:08 am »
Basically, dynohub lamps are limited by peculiarities of German law to 3W, nominally 6V at 0.5W; so are German battery lamps, which is why they can't compete with the Far Eastern varieties. The German law was made specifically so that bicyclists should not be a nuisance to motorists... The German legislation or its implications have been widely copied in Europe. So improvements in legal lamps in Europe will depend on growth in the efficiency of LEDs and better optics. At any time, from 3W you can only put so much light on the road because that's all the available LEDs will permit from 3W.

With batteries you can add more batteries, design the lamps for batteries that give more power (faster current delivery, the so called C rating of the battery), usually by switching to a newer battery technology (Alkaline>Ni-Cad>NiMH>Lipo>etc). I have a 15 Euro 2x AA cell torch that lights up the road just as well as my 250 Euro SON/BUMM setup, in fact better when it has been raining because it lights up the trees overhead so I can at least place my bike on the road, something the Cyo and Fly from BUMM won't do because their designer has given the light a crewcut.

Andre Jute

Danneaux

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Re: Dyno Lights vs Battery
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2012, 01:56:17 am »
Andre,

Something I've long had on my "to-do" list is some vivisection on one of those Taiwanese hi-powered LED battery lights, so it can be adapted to bicycling use. It's a logical next step, and one that is calling me by the day.

Have you done this yet?

Quote
Even assuming that's 2 or 3 times exaggeration, its got to be many times brighter than my edelux.

No doubt, Pete; those things are incredibly bright, and the (symmetrical) beam patterns are really useful, just as Andre observed. a lot of light for the money.

Best,

Dan.

Andre Jute

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Re: Dyno Lights vs Battery
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2012, 03:42:43 am »
Andre,

Something I've long had on my "to-do" list is some vivisection on one of those Taiwanese hi-powered LED battery lights, so it can be adapted to bicycling use. It's a logical next step, and one that is calling me by the day.

Have you done this yet?

Very little vivisection is necessary. In most cases except the cheapest of these torches, the head screws off and then you have a selfcontained LED holder, collimator, lens (with focus on one I have on my desk), and, most important of all, heatsink, all in one unit. You next need to regulate the voltage reaching the LED, and for this I bought a prebuilt and heatsinked buck on the net, capable of handling more than 6A with an input anywhere from 6 to 60V and an adjustable output.

I have the parts, but got derailed when BUMM brought out the Fly E.

I was going to glue the high powered LED head of the torch into a small tomato puree tin (I like the Roma brand), or possibly saw the middle section out of the torch and glue the two parts together to get readymade switching and other software (including flashing, SOS, etc, all of which is in the rear of the torch I bought for the experiment), and leave just enough length for mounting to a fishblock on the handlebar. Then I would run the lamp off my electric motor's battery via the buck. Running it off a dynamo is no different, exept that I would include a large capacitor in the circuit to stabilize the delivery of power to the lamp further and to provide a stand light when the rider stops pedaling.

I don't think I'll do it now. Check out the photos of my Fly E, which is nowhere near as powerful as the torch I bought. The Fly and the Cyo have flattop throws for a good reason: you can't put that much light into the eyes of oncoming drivers without endangering yourself. But a symmetrical light that powerful, unless you cover part of the lens, would be like running the FLY E in traffic on the highest mechanical click stop setting of the lamp mount. See the photos at
http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGbuildingpedelec6.html

Andre Jute

Danneaux

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Re: Dyno Lights vs Battery
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2012, 04:49:17 am »
Quote
I have the parts, but got derailed when BUMM brought out the Fly E.

Boy, the fun we'd have had together as kids, Andre...nothing would have been safe from "improvement". Add Dave (Expr) to the mix, and little in the world would have remained as-original or intact.

Quote
...or possibly saw the middle section out of the torch and glue the two parts together...

I'd figured on rethreading the stub end, but gluing would be much more straightforward and easier (an etching polyamine-polyamide epoxy resin would work well in this application).

Quote
I don't think I'll do it now...The Fly and the Cyo have flattop throws for a good reason: you can't put that much light into the eyes of oncoming drivers without endangering yourself.

<nods> True, but it is easy to make a cutoff for installation behind the collimator lens if you place it on the bottom (the image is reversed as it is projected through the collimator; the projector lights I retrofitted to my Honda Civic Si work the same way).

Andre, I'm just itching to do this for off-road and goat-trail use, where a symmetrical beam would be useful for avoiding low-hanging tree branches. By the way, those Roma cans are the business for making half-sized pressurized meths stoves.

All the best,

Dan. (So many projects, so little time...)
« Last Edit: September 30, 2012, 07:32:31 am by Danneaux »

Danneaux

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Re: Dyno Lights vs Battery
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2012, 07:45:46 am »
Quote
...it's nothing next to the MagicShine 872...I think my Minewt 600 is brighter.
MagicShine
http://magicshine.com/product_view.asp?id=77
Niterider Minewt
http://www.niterider.com/rechargeable-new/minewt-600-cordless-new/

My goodness, Man! :o Pete, the output of those things is incredible. For the last 35 years, I've enjoyed really good aftermarket automotive halogen lighting by Hella, Cibié, SEV Marchal, Marchotti, and PIAA, but the nighttime photo (link above) of the Magicshine looks right up there with them. The MagicShine MJ-880 is reported to produce 2000 lumens: http://www.magicshine.hk/ShowProduct.aspx?id=64

While there have been a number of sites that compare the beams of battery and dyno-powered bicycle lights, none I'm aware of include comparisons with these candidates or like high-powered battery lights. Wow! Thanks for the reference.

If you haven't seen them, you might enjoy these sites with photographic beam comparisons, even though they miss the newer lights you referenced:
http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/headlights.asp
http://swhs.home.xs4all.nl/fiets/tests/verlichting/index_en.html

And a useful recent test (22 September 2012) of battery lights here:
http://magazine.bikeradar.com/2012/09/22/mbuk-lights-testing-beam-shots/

Best,

Dan.

P.S. Andre, I've referenced this before, but if you missed it, this nicely explains "why" the Cyo beam pattern went bad...
http://swhs.home.xs4all.nl/fiets/tests/verlichting/koplampen/BM_IQ_reflector/index_en.html
« Last Edit: September 30, 2012, 08:13:00 am by Danneaux »

Andre Jute

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Re: Dyno Lights vs Battery
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2012, 03:46:02 pm »
This guy has some wild ideas too.  http://swhs.home.xs4all.nl/fiets/tests/verlichting/dynamo_led_driver/index_en.html I was thinking along the same lines. I'm quite capable of designing the electronics (I'm good on resonance anyway, from my days in audio design, big, dangerous tube amps and huge bass horn speakers) but I found perfectly good prebuilt buck circuits on Ebay for prices that wouldn't even pay for the components. I was thinking about two lamps together, a first series Cyo and something with a shorter, wider throw, maybe a LED built into a MR 11 or MR 16 shell simply because I have experience of those, the latter turned well down to give me peripheral vision, which is important where I ride. As I say, I was distracted by BUMM making e-lights, with stepdown and control circuits built in. BUMM's circuits and heatsinking appear to me good, even if their optics are a retrograde step. I'm not so much interested in more light -- though I grasp that the offroaders are keenly interested -- as in better-distributed light.

There's a problem about optics, which I once discussed with the team that designed the front end of the Citroen SM (a big Maserati-engined coupe, then and in many respects still, the most advanced car in the world, such a favourite of mine that I owned no fewer than three at one time or another -- nothing else would average 100mph from London to Nardo in the boot of Italy in such cosseting comfort, not even the later Turbo Bentley which in many respects "replaced" it); they told me the Cibie engineers stated the obvious as a killer fact of lighting design: the more functions you try to make a single reflector perform, the worse it will perform any and all of the functions. Apparently the Cibie ideal at the time, leaving aside signalling and daylight running lamps, was five discrete and preferably separate reflectors per side: dim lights, standard legal throw, long range speed throw, flood for side throw or better still a lamp tied in to the steering and moving with it, fog lamp for wet or obscured conditions.

****

I might try the Philips Saferide next, now that they make a pedelec version, rather than another BUMM light, which on their track record is rather too likely to leave a sour taste in the mouth, especially at the stupid prices BUMM has announced for their next "improvement". i've had years of niggling dissatisfactions with BUMM lights. Despite the general attitude among my cycling compadres that a BUMM lamp is beatified at birth, I can only cite three BUMM lamps that were clearly the best dynamo lamps in the world in their time (first series Cyo R, D'Toplight Plus, current Toplight Line Plus, and the latter two are rear lamps, and one of them was conclusively beaten by a battery lamp, the Cateye TL LD-1000 and 1100, and the Cyo's "nearfield" promise was a lie). That may be a fabulous record for some little, obscure manufacturer, but it isn't so hot for a maker with BUMM's reputation. That hot spot in the latest Cyo/Fly's throw is the final straw for me -- it is extremely distracting even on my short rides, and for a tourer it will be maddening.

Andre Jute

keleher

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Re: Dyno Lights vs Battery
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2012, 07:14:10 pm »
More info on measured lux of the battery-powered lights is here:

   http://reviews.mtbr.com/lights-shootout-light-meter-measurements

I'd love to see some numbers (lumens, lux) of various dynamo lights.

il padrone

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Re: Dyno Lights vs Battery
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2012, 01:09:28 am »
The new B&M IQ Luxo is a pretty cool headlight for dynamo use. Output is 80 lux I believe.

Danneaux

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Re: Dyno Lights vs Battery
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2012, 02:34:14 am »
Hi Pete!

One thing that worries me most about the B&M Luxos is the rechargeable battery included to prevent devices such as smart phones and GPS units from going into standby mode during power interruptions. That battey is going to see an awful lot of partial charge/discharge cycles, and I'm hoping they've gone with lithium-polymer (LiPo) or similar batteries to minimize the effect, or make battery replacement both inexpensive and convenient.

I can't imagine B&M still use capacitors to power the standlight function if a rechargeable battery source is ready-to-hand.

I also view the remote power switch and USB port with suspicion as possible failure points. They may well prove fine, but I'd sure like to see some linear field-test data to see how they perform in environments more extreme than city commuting.

Best,

Dan. (Hope!...tempered with healthy skepticism)