Author Topic: New parking stand, nearly right as it arrived  (Read 4588 times)

Danneaux

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New parking stand, nearly right as it arrived
« on: September 18, 2012, 03:03:26 AM »
Hi All!

Just as with the "orange-box stoves" ( http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4637.msg22737#msg22737 ), another eBay product has hit the auction site in sufficient quantity to drive the price down. This time, it is a parking/repair stand that clasps the bike by the rear hub quick-release (use the eBay search string, "bicycle hub stand" with no quotes. Works on ebay.co.uk as well). It is a simple double-U of steel tubing and structural plastic that doesn't scratch paint. It works fine, is very stable, and surprisingly sturdy; it stays attached when I lift the bike and the bike does not wobble while parked in it. The two halves mate very securely thanks to toothed interfaces, and is adjustable for height yet still folds flat for storage. It could conceivably be stored in a pannier while touring...it is pretty light at 1.32lb/0.6kg -- a bit less than a Pletscher/ESGE/SKS double-leg kickstand (1.62lb/.73kg).

I wouldn't risk putting a fully-loaded tourer on this stand, but I see no problem with it holding the 45lb/20kg Nomad, several full water bottles and a rack pack and handlebar bag (total of about 65lb/29kg).

It cost USD$20.50 including shipping from China. A similar model from Nitto (all-metal and beautifully fillet-brazed from cro-mo steel but instead cradles the mid-chainstays) costs about 5x more plus shipping ( http://www.benscycle.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=6579&zenid=612e0c685c2302dd88ae1abe58c4fd45 ). Nitto also make one that is far sturdier than my new one, but functionally identical here: http://www.compasscycle.com/bike_stands_nitto.html

Not only is my new stand really stable for parking/storage, it is ideal for working on the bike. The rear wheel and cranks can turn without interference, and it is ideal for adjusting the brakes or cleaning and oiling the chain or cleaning any oil mist off the hub (in the collage below, the bike is a bit dusty from today's ride on gravel roads). The stand can also be set high enough to accommodate a shallow disposable aluminum basting pan beneath the rear wheel, just right for catching errant drops of oil during an annual Rohloff oil change. It would be terrific for a derailleur bike as well, 'cos the rear mech coud go through its entire shifting range without interfering with the stand.

At this point, I'm a bit ambivalent about this stand because taking the bike on or off it is a two-person job. You see, while one clamp is relieved to accommodate the q/r lever, the other is a solid tube and when at rest, the opening in the stand is really too narrow to fit the bike. The bike has to be held (by someone else) while the rear is lifted, the tube fitted over the q/r nut and the other side stretched against tension until it is wide enough to slide over the q/r lever.

When I surveyed eBay's offerings, there were models like this and models with both sides relieved, and I thought I was ordering the latter. Apprently, they are supplied as-available and it is chance as to which one gets. Some listings have photos of both under a single listing.

I am thinking seriously about taking the high-speed die-grinder to the right side -- the one that is a complete cylinder -- and cutting a U-shaped opening in it to match the left side, and then cutting off some of the extension so it is easier to fit (unlike the left side the right-side cylinder does not rotate under firm finger pressure, so iI woud have to mill it right the first time, which could be difficult). I envision making it possible to back the bike into the waiting horizontal jaws of the stand and then lock up the front brake to prevent any possible movement.

Has anyone else tried one of these stands, and did you modify it as I am considering?  I suppose I could try spreading (bending) the arms apart first to see if that helps with one-person use, and will try tha next. Thanks in advance for any suggestions you might offer.

Best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2012, 01:00:33 AM by Danneaux »

Danneaux

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Re: New parking stand, nearly right as it arrived
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2012, 04:37:15 AM »
Hi All!

After spending some time really examining the stand, the solution turned out to be surprisingly easy --

1) Bend the stand gently apart so it is slightly wider...about 1.0cm did the trick. It didn't take much effort, as the tubes are pretty ductile. Because the bottoms of the "U" supports are arched and contact the ground at their corners, they tend to bend inward at the top under load, clasping the bicycle's q/r more firmly when weight is placed on the stand's cradles.
...and...
2) Re-orient the q/r lever so it is more vertical and align the stand's left-hand cradle so the opening points "up".

Now, I can get the bike in and out of the stand myself so long as I first lock the front brake lever with the purpose-made rubber band I also use to park it with my Click-Stand. This keeps the bike from rolling away while I fit it to the stand. I then place the stand on the ground behind the rear tire, lean over the rack, and life the bike by the rack. It is pretty easy to use my other hand to place the closed cylinder on the hub q/r nut and then gently lower the bike so the left-side q/r lever docks in the stand's half-open cradle on that side (I have to pull it open slightly to engage). Removal is the reverse.

I do notice the stand's metal tubes have a bit of slack where they enter the plastic hubs, but as with the cradles, the weight of the bike makes everything solid. I will keep an eye on it for awhile until I feel I can trust it fully to hold the bike over time. Of course, curiosity got the better of me and I took the stand fully apart. I was pleased to see the hubs are held securely together with captive steel hex nuts and bolts and I am pleased and a little astonished at how cleverly it has been designed. It appears very simple, but a great deal of thought has gone into it.

Best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2012, 07:19:28 AM by Danneaux »

Danneaux

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Re: New parking stand, nearly right as it arrived
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2012, 05:50:39 PM »
Hi All!

For what it is worth to those with pedalecs and front-hub electric conversions, I think this stand might also work to support the front wheel of the bike. I presume many of the benefits would also apply in that case, though I am uncertain if the width would be correct to mate with a narrower front hub/fork. I'm happy to provide specific measurements if needed.

Best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2012, 05:55:28 PM by Danneaux »

jags

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Re: New parking stand, nearly right as it arrived
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2012, 07:25:02 PM »
looks good Dan i have 2 bike stands and to be honest there a pain  to set up. something like that would be very handy.and it's a super price as well  ;)

Andre Jute

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Re: New parking stand, nearly right as it arrived
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2012, 12:01:12 AM »
Hi All!

For what it is worth to those with pedalecs and front-hub electric conversions, I think this stand might also work to support the front wheel of the bike. I presume many of the benefits would also apply in that case, though I am uncertain if the width would be correct to mate with a narrower front hub/fork. I'm happy to provide specific measurements if needed.

Best,

Dan.

Thanks, Dan, but I don't have any quick releases. I read the thread earlier today and had a look on Ebay, but concluded that the stand wouldn't do what I want it to do, which is to hold the bike clear of the ground while I drop the wheel.

Like Jags, I find proper bike stands a nuisance to put up. And lifting my bike up on it... the least said the better!

Andre Jute

Danneaux

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Re: New parking stand, nearly right as it arrived
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2012, 12:21:48 AM »
Quote
I...concluded that the stand wouldn't do what I want it to do, which is to hold the bike clear of the ground while I drop the wheel.

<nods> Absolutely correct, Andre. This stand works by clamping over the hub quick-release itself, terminating about 2mm clear of of the painted dropout. I believe it would work with nutted axles (as on my tandem), but because it holds by the wheel fastener, it wouldn't allow you to drop the wheel.

The Nitto Cycle Stand C-2 referenced in the one link above comes closer to meeting your needs because it holds the middle of each chainstay in a channel or tray, leaving the hub q/r and dropouts free. See...



Close, but likely not close enough for your needs.

What you require (and understandably so!) turns out to be extremely difficult to execute in practice. Either or both ends of the heavy bike must be lofted easily, made absolutely stable, then raised enough for the rear wheel to be inserted and removed from behind or below, keeping mudguard clearance in mine.  This almost requires a bicycle-specific variation on a motorcycle stand or lift, like one of these:
http://www.harborfreight.com/motorcycle-swingarm-rear-stand-65620.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/high-position-motorcycle-lift-99887.html

I still think your best course lies in something like the F-1 nosecone pit-lift I mentioned to you awhile ago. Particularly at the front, a couple pegs on bolts at the front lowrider bosses would be an ideal jacking point...and would look much like the Motorcycle Swingarm Rear Stand detailed in the first of the two links above. Something similar coud be rigged at the rear lower rack mounts to loftboth ends of the bike in a stable fashion while allowing both wheels to turn or be dropped as desired with no lifting or effort, thanks to the leverage provided by the lift.

[EDIT: Andre, have you seen or considered the Racor Bike Lift? See:
http://www.racorstoragesolutions.com/p/detail/pbh-1r?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1



It screws into overhead ceiling studs and provides a lift for the bike. The effort would be very light and reasonable thanks to the Racor's 4:1 mechanical advantage, made even more favorable by a pulley-and-crank assist (winch or windlass) you could easily add. I have used one on occasion to loft my tandem into the upper reaches of the garage, but would never do so by the rear of the saddle(s); far better to lift by the rear rack or something similarly solid at the rear to match the handlebars at the front.]

You've *got* to show me what you come up with when the day finally comes, Andre. I know it will be a corker!

All the best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2012, 03:07:03 AM by Danneaux »

Andre Jute

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Re: New parking stand, nearly right as it arrived
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2012, 11:04:17 AM »
A tremendously useful reply, as always, Dan. Thank you ever so much.

The one I like is the hydraulic motorcycle lift, but it's a bit large and would probably require so much modification as to justify designing and building something from scratch.

The truth is that I just love tools. My bike is designed for absolute minimum maintenance, now reduced by my factory-chain-lube experiment to changing the oil in the Rohloff gearbox once a year, a chain every second year or third year, new tyres possibly every six to ten years, cogs now that I have stainless steel front and rear very likely never. I don't really need a stand, I just want one!

All of that said, today I will be dropping the front wheel, which still runs the 47mm Kenda banded medium pressure knobbly the electric wheel came with (a much less uncomfortable tyre than the bare description suggests -- a fairer description would be: not quite a low pressure Big Apple, but surprisingly close considering the price, concept and intended use). Before I order up a Big Bull rim and Sapim Strong spokes with Polyax nipples from Germany at considerable expense, plus tools for another hundred bucks or so, into which to build a motor that may not survive much longer, I want to see how the Big Apple runs in the narrow rim the motor came with, only 16mm across the beads.

Now, would any stand help with that? Not unless it hydraulically turns the bike upside down and holds it with the dropout at a comfortable working level. See, the most critical thing about a powerful pedelec installation is to get the anti-torque washers seated properly. The ones that come with the Bafang 8FUN motors, of which for present European laws I recommend the QSWXK, look like the torque washers on Shimano's Nexus 8-speed boxes, but the tongue is shallower. On the other hand, the anti-torque washer is steel rather than alloy as on the Shimano. Fitting it correctly is both trickier and more critical. Fiddling around lying on your back, or bent over double under a bike on a stand, or using a mirror, -- all of this is just impossible because the plated steel shines, the steel fork shines, and if you eyes aren't the hottest, it is very easy to make a mistake that will rip the wires out of the motor, ruining it beyond repair, and then let the motor spin, probably wrecking the fork as well. The only right way to seat the anti-torque washers properly is to turn the bike upside down. The difficulty of getting good photographs illustrates the problems, even when the bike is upside down, multiplied ten times when the bike is right way up. See http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGbuildingpedelec3.html

I might have to do that a foreseeable maximum of three times more. Once to fit the Big Apple to the narrow rim, once to remove the Big Apple if it doesn't work in the narrow rim, once more to fit the new wider rim if it proves necessary. That's three times in all, spread over a period, and perhaps only once. After that the wheel is in there until the motor goes, or I decide to fit a BPM climber motor instead, or the tyre wears out.

Bicycles have come a long, long way from requiring several tubes patched on any day's ride!

The ceiling hoist might do it but you'd still be working uncomfortably overhead.

By the way, my bike has a side stand, attached to the reinforced leftside frame end at the back, and can take a Tubus front stand for stability in loaded touring configurations.

So, Dan, thanks for your help, but on investigating the true need, the likely cost and space requirements, and the likely amount of use, I'm out of these small bike racks.

The one thing i would be interested in is a hydraulic bike stand, like a normal folding stand (I keep mine in the oilskins cupboard in the mud room). I imagine that you would start with a bike standing on the floor, clamp the seat post, press a button or pump a lever, and the bike will be raised magically to a working height.

Andre Jute

jags

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Re: New parking stand, nearly right as it arrived
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2012, 03:16:53 PM »
i think I'll start addressing you two as sherlock and homes the bike detectives .
is there anything you guy's don't know about bikes  ;D ;D

Danneaux

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Re: New parking stand, nearly right as it arrived
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2012, 04:22:52 PM »
Quote
...is there anything you guy's don't know about bikes...

Thanks for the kind words, jags, but I learn something new about bicycles nearly every day! Far more fun than "knowing it all"! And, truth be told, there's an 8 year-old boy running wild inside of me. The whole world is full of promise and...Adventure!

Andre, you wrote...
Quote
The truth is that I just love tools.

Yeah, me too.

Quote
I don't really need a stand, I just want one!

Reason enough, and more!

Andre, I think what you are wishing for could be accomplished very quickly and easily with a bit of plate steel, a few moments' welding time, a linear actuator (LA), and a Park Tool Bench Mount Repair Stand with 360° head, like this one:
http://www.parktool.com/product/bench-mount-repair-stand-prs-7-1



Linear actuators are available in a variety of flavors including long-stroke versions (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_actuator /or/ use the search string "linear actuator" in any search engine) but all are basically the same in using some geared means to extend a straight rod in a single straight (linear) direction. This rod is then either attached to a bell crank to perform work, or used directly. Most linear actuators are aready geared and have the strength needed to lift or push heavy things in a straight line for surprising distances. Many 12-volt linear actuators are strong enough to open the rear hatches on SUVs, for example, or custom blade-door conversions on cars. Anyone interested in robotics will tell you: There's very little that can't be accomplished more easily with a LA. All you need is a source of power, easily supplied by the mains or a small 12-volt wall transformer in a home shop.

A 12-volt linear actuator attached to a plate on which you have bolted a standard Park 360° bench-mount repair stand would really address your needs. Simply mount the actuator to a bench or wall stud, wheel the bike to it, affix the non-marring stand clamp to the seat tube as usual, then press the button -- et voila! -- the linear actuator raises the bike to whatever convenient height, well clear of the ground (some LAs have a stroke of 1 meter or more, but a bell-crank or parallelogram linkage can make even an inexpensive short-stroke LA do the job). Once elevated, simply unlock and rotate the stand-head and the bike can be inverted or set at any convenient angle with no effort, no fuss, no lifting, with everything easily viewed from a standing or seated position.

The Park stand costs about USD$165. A linear actuator suited to your needs by working through a bell-crank could be as little as USD$75, and a few moments' welding time for another USD$15...and you've got your pushbutton-actuated high-lift repair stand for a shade over USD$250. Not cheap, but not too bad for a no-effort bike repair stand and about USD$50 less than a floor-mount Park stand intended for shop use.

Trouble is, Andre, you've got your bikes so reliable, you've removed nearly all the justification!  That brings us back to "I just love tools" and "I just want one!". Andre, you'd love one of these; don't you really want one?  :D

All the best,

Dan. (CBI -- Certified Bad Influence)
« Last Edit: September 19, 2012, 11:40:52 PM by Danneaux »

Andre Jute

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Re: New parking stand, nearly right as it arrived
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2012, 09:50:47 PM »

is there anything you guy's don't know about bikes  ;D ;D


Dan's an emissary of the devil. Living out here in the Wilds of West Cork, at the end of the known cycling world, I don't even know these things exist, never mind that I absolutely must have one, unless Dan publishes the photograph.

Andre Jute
Reading the RS catalogue (in the States they're Mouser...)