Author Topic: Thorn drop bars  (Read 3580 times)

diliff

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Thorn drop bars
« on: September 07, 2012, 11:43:53 AM »
Hi guys, I recently decided to try 'upgrading' my Thorn Raven Tour from flat bars to Thorn's drop bars (the one designed for the Gilles Berthoud’s Rohloff Shifter), along with the Tektro V-brakes.

Upon first fitting the brake levers and bars, I was struck that the ergonomics feel a bit 'off'. The issue is that in a 'neutral' position, rotation-wise, where my hands feel balanced on the drops and can comfortably reach the brake levers, the position of the hoods is such that they are too far around the curve of the bar (too far forward in other words). If you imagine that the flat part of the bar that extends either side of the stem is a line, the hood of the brake lever is below that line, and as a result, my hands have to go over the bend in the bar to reach them. I could bring the brake lever hoods back towards me, closer to the top of the bar, but then I cannot reach the lever from the drops position anymore! I could also rotate the bar around so that the levers are higher on the bar, but then the drop position is no longer comfortable as they are so far forward that my arm hits the bar. It seems that the drop tubing does not extend far enough around for the ergonomic/anatomic part of the drops/hooks to be in a comfortable position when the bar is rotated around so that the brake levers are positioned comfortably.

So hopefully you see my issue... Has anyone else experienced this? I've ridden other drop bar bikes without this compromise, and I can only think that unless I've missed something obvious, the bars are just not ergonomically well considered. I've tried a number of different combinations of brake/hood position and bar rotation, but because of the fundamental mutual exclusivity between a comfortable drop position and comfortable hood position, I'm at a loss as to how to resolve it.

Danneaux

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8287
  • reisen statt rasen
Re: Thorn drop bars
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2012, 04:26:50 PM »
Hi Diliff,

<nods> Yes, I understand your dilemma exactly; you've described the problem well. There are several suggestions I can make which might help --

1) If it is possible to actually ride the handlebars without taping them (use electrical tape to hold the brake cables temporarily in place, leaving the brake cables overly-long to allow adjustment), try various combinations of 'bar tilt and lever placement. I realize you've already likely made many adjustments, but it is sometimes different when one is riding, and perhaps that will make a difference and provide that "ah-ha!" just-right position if you have not yet tried it. If I may suggest, having someone take a profile photo of you atop the bike can be a real shortcut to getting the proper setup arranged more quickly. Even better than a mirror or riding past a reflective shop window, it freezes a moment in time and a person can see just where things are "off" and how better to correct them.

2) If you have the steerer length to accommodate, sometimes a slight rise in handlebar height will make the difference with regard to rotation and lever placement. I added a 12mm spacer and suddenly, things "went right" with my Zoom Anatomics, which appear to have a generally similar bend.

3) Where your bicycle formerly used straight 'bars, then the top tube is likely longer than a frame intended for use with drops from the start. If so, you may need to bring the handlebars closer, using a shorter-reach stem to make up the difference. I was in a similar situation when switching from my Sherpa to the Nomad...the longer Nomad top tube required a shorter stem. Moving the brake levers up 1cm and going from a 110cm stem to one of 90cm (equivalent to an 80mm stem) did the trick for me, after adding that 12mm spacer (which also moved the 'bars back slightly, due to the head angle).

4) The Gilles Berthoud shifter can be used with other handlebars, but at the cost of some hand room atop the 'bars. Still if one rides mostly on the brake hoods, this tradeoff might not be so bad if you find a handlebar that better suits your needs.

Forum member Keleher found by leaving the Berthoud shim out, he could use the setscrews only to place the shifter on a Nitto Noodle handlebar. Perhaps this would provide a similar placement for you if you change handlebars, though I would caution not to use this method with alu 'bars, as the pinch bolts might cause a stress riser that could prove peoblematic. On steel 'bars it would be fine...or perhaps I am overly cautious when it comes to the possibility of breaking an alu 'bar! If the bare pinch bolts pressed on an outer sleeve, then it might well be no problem or concern.

A 44cm handlebar I've found and like is the Nitto B115, which has a very shallow drop with the lower hooks bending nearly parallel to the tops. Very easy to get the brakes "just right" for an easy reach in all positions, and I found myself using the drops more frequently (on the tandem that uses them) because it wasn't a huge drop. On the single bike (Nomad), the deeper drop seems to be fine. I had thought the Zoom Anatomics might prove problematic for me when I first specified them for Sherpa, but they turned out to be fine, which was a very pleasant surprise.

5) Finally, if the Thorn Drops/Gilles Berthoud shifter combo don't meet your needs, it is still possible to use drop handlebars with a Rohloff shifter by a variety of other means. I took a very different approach (one that is aesthetically controversial but extremely functional) and mounted my Rohloff shifter to a T-bar *atop* the stem, with the shifter centered above the 'bars. Strange-looking, yes, but about as ergonomically perfect for my needs as I could imagine, and a setup I'll keep even if I someday change handlebars ('bars can be changed without affecting shifter or cable routing with this mount, so simplicity itself to change). There is a thread devoted to the topic of Rohloffs and drops here:
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4049.0

Photos of my own, rather unusual setup are here:
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4523.msg22081#msg22081

Me in a flat-back position, activating the brake levers from the drops (shutter snapped just before I could get into my regular position, with hands a bit higher and with straight wrists instead of bent as shown):
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4523.0;attach=2037

I hope something in the above suggestions will prove helpful. Getting the right setup can sometimes be a real challenge, and what works for others -- even a majority -- will sometimes not work for oneself. We're all different, and thank goodness for that!

Best,

Dan.

diliff

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: Thorn drop bars
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2012, 03:04:50 PM »
Thanks for your detailed reply, Dan. I should have mentioned that I'm not currently using the Gilles Berthoud shifter, just the standard Rohloff shifter on the T bar, but I did want to use bars that would future proof the set up in case I did decide to use them later, which was why I went for the Thorn bars, sight-unseen. To be honest, I rarely cycle with my hands on the top of the bars, partially because I find the position too narrow and close to me (assuming the bars are in the correct position to be comfortable in the hoods and drops), and partly because the hoods are more comfortable. If I wanted to use a flat bar position, I'd just use flat bars with ergonomic grips which I have used previously and did like, although I spent most of my time on the bar ends because my hands prefered that angle of the wrists. Because of that, I had to move my hands to access the brakes which wasn't ideal so drop bars made more sense.

I had never considered using the T bar above the stem, but it potentially makes a lot of sense. I'll have to give it a try, although I'm about to start a 2 week tour (Land's End to John O'Groats) in two days time, so I don't want to experiment too much - the bar comfort is more of a priority than shifter position. Already I'm having to complete the bar set up far later than is ideal! I haven't even taped up the bar and finalised the position yet! I suspect I may end up making fine tuning things as I go along, unfortunately. It wasn't my intention but time has slipped away from me. I don't have time to try a different bar so I will persevere for now. The hoods are not super uncomfortable, it's just the lump of the curve that is getting in the way of a natural hand position.

That photo of you in a 'flat-back' position on the drops sure does look uncomfortable to spend long periods of time in. :) You would almost hit your face on the stem if you ever went over an unseen bump! Also, your hands are not resting on the bars at all as the hand position is almost vertical... I prefer a position where my hands are against the drops at slight angle (perhaps 20-30 degrees from horizontal) and  propping up perhaps 20-30% of my bodyweight (I'm guessing). Anyway, as you say, we're all different!

joesoap

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 28
Re: Thorn drop bars
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2012, 11:03:14 PM »
Try Nitto's Noodle bars. Stunning quality and will be the most comfortable drop bars you have ever tried, honest!

diliff

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: Thorn drop bars
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2012, 08:40:43 AM »
Thanks for the replies guys.

Well, I just recently got back from the tour (Land's End to John O'Groats). I didn't have a chance to make any further changes and just put up with the imperfect bar set up as it was.

Now that I'm back though, I'm keen to perfect it for the next trip.  ;D I was actually quite happy with the Rohloff shifter on the T-bar (rotated around the steerer slightly so that it points more towards me and is more ergonomically positioned for quick shifting). As for the Nitto Noodle bars, I'm certainly interested in looking into them, but I'm a bit confused. Is the noodle bar a particular model of handlebar, or does it refer to all of Nitto's bars? I had a look at what was available on the SJSCycles website and none of them say noodle bars. I googled 'nitto noodle bar' and an Ebay auction referred to the Nitto Mod 177 as a noodle bar. Also, what is it about them that you think it so comfortable? Does the bar have a 'flat' brake hood position so that my hands don't have to dip down the front of the bars to reach it?

Thanks,
David

Erudin

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 54
Re: Thorn drop bars
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2012, 04:53:59 PM »
Congratulations for completing the tour. I like FSA Vero Compact bars, drops are very usable, brakes easy to reach and flat transition to hoods:

see also:

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/video-review-handlebar/FSA-Compact-Handlebars.665.html

Link to CTC thread on Compact Bars
« Last Edit: October 04, 2012, 05:43:31 PM by Erudin »