Author Topic: neo-Thorn owner, L.A., many pictures & questions  (Read 23521 times)

Procyon

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neo-Thorn owner, L.A., many pictures & questions
« on: February 13, 2005, 10:08:17 AM »
Hello,

http://www.charityadvantage.com/lampartproject/x.asp

See my new (used) Thorn Nomad.  I am buying it on payments at a pre-owned bicycle store and repair shop near the ocean where I live in Santa Monica, California.

I am very interested in information.  I love bicycles and always wanted a commuter with big carrying capacity and big tire capacity.  I am an artist, and go from rags to riches.  Usually rags.  So I am buying the used Nomad on payments.

Please look at my bicycle on my website at :  

http://www.charityadvantage.com/lampartproject/x.asp      
I am so excited to be getting this Thorn Nomad.  I also plan to visit England in the next few years.
thanks,
Rory White   roreeewhite@hotmail.com          

IMPORTANT ADDENDUM :  Hi, I wanted to add tht i am EXTREMELY grateful for any info anyone cares to offer about my bike...  i pose many questions on the page of photos i made for it, yesterday...  I ride bikes but do NOT know much like you people do...

so, again, if anyone wants to help, (Istanbul already sent me a very  helpful informative encouraging letter, but also addressing my concern whether i can make the bike work for me as it's the tallest of the older Nomad configurations, and I am 5 foot 10 inches (what is that in metric terminolgogy?).

i test ride the bike, everytime i make a payment, and enjoy it, but the geometry is so different from my mountian bike or old peugeot, that i can't discern anything, except this crazy love for it...    but i might be marrying the wrong woman.  (i've done it before).   at least the Nomad probably won't sue for a property settlement...  it's tallness will just cause me to break my neck ? or ?

see the bike and questions at :  http://www.charityadvantage.com/lampartproject/x.asp  and any and all feedback is of interest...
« Last Edit: February 15, 2005, 06:38:48 AM by Procyon »

PH

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Re: neo-Thorn owner, L.A., many pictures & questions
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2005, 03:48:00 AM »
Looks a nice bike Procyon.
As for size, what do the bike shop say? Any decent one should be able to advise.  The only two essentials are that it has enough standover clearance and you can get comfortable on it.  There’s a lot of adjustment on that bike to get it just right, saddle height, stem length (That looks a really short one on it at the moment) and handlebar height (easy to adjust with an aheadset)
Some interesting reading on the subject
http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.htm


Procyon

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Re: neo-Thorn owner, L.A., many pictures & questions
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2005, 04:40:16 AM »
Thanks PH for the comments and suggestions.

The bike shop people were encouraging.  At first they thought it would be too big. So I didn't have them pull it off the racks or try it or look at it again more "seriously" for 9 months... It sat there, and i couldn't help "wanting" it, everytime i came in.

One day, one of the bike shop people said, we won't know if we don't take it down and you try it...

 An expert, and very helpful friend of theirs was there, also, a representative for Innova Bike Tires, and he helped me and was, exceedingly knowledgeable, and thought it worked for me, seeing me on it, adjusting seat height, and having me do various things.  

I have test-ridden it 5 times and like it very much, like a child with his first bike, but the geometry is so odd compared to anything i've been on in the past, it's hard to judge.  I ride it eveytime i make a payment on it.

I think I can standover it to my satisfaction.  

obviously some extra inches of clearance would be nice, when getting on off in tricky situations.  

there is not 3 or even 2 extra inches there though.  3/4 to one inch standover.  

But i'm used to that on my mountain bike riding through intense inner city traffic with huge potholes, unexpected curbs, trucks driving you down, and no place to go, quite often, but THROUGH whatever obstacle appears...

I got the old mountain bike for free, though and couldn't chose a fitting.  The standover is similar, and i'm also up on tippy toes when on the saddle on the mountian bike, just like the thorn...

there is an odd feeling on the Thorn that I'm higher up in the air.  i don't know if this is cause it's so big, or that i'm not used to its geometry.

Yet the Thorn seems like a Lambourghini compared to my old mountain bike.  

Ironic, yes?  

Also the avid shorty brakes, while not being disc, or even the higher quality available, almost throw me over the handlebars if i don't watch out... (they can be adjusted to soften as there are no stuffed panniers and packs on the bike yet)...

Not known for being light, the Thorn Nomad, nevertheless, seems wildly responsive, almost too much so (i'll have to get used to it), but, of course it has no load on it yet, but my own body when riding.  

The Innova Bike Tire rep who thought it was a bit suprising, but that not only did I seem to fit fine on the bike, in his opinon but :

he, totally unaware of Thorns,... remember this is L.A., kept being amazed looking at the quality of the construction of the bike...  It was cool...  

He kept saying "Wow, look at this.  Look at the workmanship!"  He had never seen a Thorn frame before.  So I was delighted with his feedback, and that he thought it would work for me.

So, I certainly hope your criteria might be correct.   Me being able to standover it to my satisfaction and enjoy riding it.  

It's hard to evaluate as i'm not used to riding a "correct" sized bike of such different geometry.... I do love it.

I appreciate any and all other ideas and thoughts.  

I've tried deciphering Peter White's formula before, (thanks for mentioning it.  i had gone to his site many times to look at Atlantis bikes, etc.) but got overwhelmed at his "simple" formula.     I love to ride, but am ignorant...

I'll try to take pictures of me ON the bike, next to it, straddling it, etc. and get them on the webpage i've been building on it :  

Thank you PH.  
sincerely, Procyon...

by the way, hasn't Thorn changed the geometry of the Nomad since building my bike ?  

again i'll update the pictures soon :
http://www.charityadvantage.com/lampartproject/x.asp

Istanbul_Tea

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Re: neo-Thorn owner, L.A., many pictures & questions
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2005, 10:27:26 AM »
Procyon-

Based on our email and your new thread here... if you're able to straddle the top tube and have nearly a half inch to an inch of clearance I would think you're fine.

One suggestion I would make is this- Because you are going to be riding it primarily in an urban setting and the possibility of needing to dismount it suddenly is certainly in a higher percentage, I would suggest wearing a shoe that of course is comfortable and well fitting but also that has a slightly thicker sole/footbed than you might be wearing now.

It'll gain you possibly another 1/2 to full inch in clearance and that will certainly be helpful when straddling the top tube in calm situations... not to mention of course, in sudden situations as well.

Good luck 2 u...

-Scott
 

Cephas

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Re: neo-Thorn owner, L.A., many pictures & questions
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2005, 04:01:40 PM »
Procyon,
Always great to hear from another Nomad owner in the US.

My take on the whole sizing issue is almost the opposite of yours. Prior to ordering my Thorn I took all the measurements (I'm a very average 5' 9.5"), did all the calculations and consulted with the folks at SJS. After receiving my frame and building up the bike myself, I was suprised that the seat tube appeared to be a size too short and the top tube was too long. I replaced the stem with one a bit shorter and with a higher angle. I raised the seat and slid it a far forward as possible. The end result has been the most comfortable bike I've ever owned. After 200k and 300k brevets I'm tired, but not sore and stiff. It handles great, both loaded and unloaded, although I have not yet put it to the test on a serious rugged tour. An off-highway trip to the high desert of southeastern Utah is in the planning stage.

If you love your Nomad as I do mine, feel comfortable on it, are not putting the family jewels at risk and are paying a fair price, then don't worry yourself. It may be a bit quirky, but anyone riding a Thorn on this side of the pond is probably quirky to begin with.  

John 'Cephas' Moore
Manchester, NH




Procyon

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Re: neo-Thorn owner, L.A., many pictures & questions
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2005, 03:49:17 AM »
Thank you so much Cephas (and PH and IstanbulJ),

I REALLLLY APPRECIATE THE ENCOURAGEMENT...    

It sounds like, even it it's a bit too big I can make it work through adjustments.  

If ultimately down the line I decided it was obvious, too many injuries, smashed groin, etc.,  I could always probably find a tall Thorn fan to sell it to or trade it, and then get myself a somewhat smaller one, and be very little worse for wear, and have the (otherwise impossible here in California... one certainly could not find one for "rent" out here) opportunity to experience unhurried hours riding the Thorn.  If, God willing, I end with one more "logically" approprite to me, size wise, great...

Also since the bike i ride now is too tall and I love riding it, I'll probably be fine.  The Innova bike tire rep who happened to help me with the bike, told me of an expert at fitting nearby.   Not only is he good at helping pick the best frame geometry, but also, and this was nice to hear, retrofitting an "off" frame, through all the adjustables, to work for a given rider...  

I will wait on that till i ride it for quite a bit.  When I take it home, I will have the store I'm buying it from do the best possible adjustments and recommendations they can, which may very well be totally satisfactory.  

In either case, if i ride it for a month, I'll understand, "feel-wise", much much much more about the bike, and further adjustments would be more physically comprehendable, rather than abstract.

Cephas, you are exactly as tall as myself, so your comments are quite relevant.  Do you have more suggestions ?  I'll look on this site for photos of your work?

They are selling the bike, in my opinion, very reasonable.  U.S. $700.  

(371 UK pounds ?)

They started asking, 9 months ago, at U.S. $1300.. (689 UK pounds...   So their original price was reasonable,(the price of a new frame, yes ?)  and the price they had reduced it to ( + 371 UK pounds) seems exceedingly fair.

  Although I am poor, I certainly did NOT ask for a discount on that reduced price and they suggested lay-a-way payments, so it seems like it was meant to be....

The bike looks like new.  The owner used it, but is a collector of bikes, and never did the trans-canadian trek he had wanted to...  Apparently, when I'm done paying for it, I'll get all his original receipts and, hopefully, get to talk to him.  he ordered the frame from England originally...., I'm sure from SJS Cyclery.... , and consigned it to the store, here in L.A..  

I am betting he reduced the price so low at the end as he wanted to see it being ridden and enjoyed, and no go through the, sometimes harshness, of auctioning....  I understand he is a real bike collector/devotee/cyclist, has a nice collection and "built" the thorn after receiving the frame from England.

Anyway... you can see I'm wordy.  [In fact i just cut out a large section of this post...  too wordy]  

I'm just so excited to be getting close to taking it home.... perhaps within a week if a certain check comes through, and to actually take part in, rather than simply evesdrop, on this Forum....

Again for anyone who hasn't looked at the bike i put a lot of pictures at :     http://www.charityadvantage.com/lampartproject/x.asp

you'll notice some of the detail shots seem from poor camera angles.   that was because I had only about three minutes to make the photos...

thanks again,
Procyon  ...

p.s. to Cephas... just went and checked, I've looked at your "gallery page" many times..... the austere beauty of Moab, wow.   and great Nomad.

p.s. to Istanbul, (if you're still reading)... :  it just came to me, looking at your dialogue with Cephas on his gallery thread on his bike and Moab, that it was YOUR query on bikeforum about thorns, that i had found and read BEFORE coming to this official Thorn Cycling Forum...  found your thread there through a simple google search on Thorn Nomads...    thank you!  my next step was here... and then the deposit on my Nomad....
« Last Edit: February 18, 2005, 05:14:32 AM by Procyon »

Procyon

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Re: neo-Thorn owner, L.A., many pictures & questions
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2005, 05:30:33 AM »
I just got back from riding the Nomad again.  The shop let me take it out in the rain even to enjoy the fact it already has fenders...  (i would like to get black fenders when i can rather than chrome... but i'm NOT complaining)..

ANYWAY, I'm REALLY getting comfortable riding the bike, height and all, and it's getting VERY ENJOYABLE.  

 i think it was just so different from either my non suspension early mountain bike or my 72 Peogeot UO-8 that i needed to get used to it...

I tried stopping and hopping to the ground, straddling it, numerous times to check for stepover height, "functionally", and found i could do it as well as on my, also tall, mountain bike.... without injury....  

i found a very steep hill and tried the gears and it just waltzed up the hill like an anti-gravity device from a sci-fi film.  Didn't even make me breathe hard.  VERY different than my trusty mountian bike which would have labored greatly...

so i think i'm going to enjoy it tremendously.... i'm looking forward to panniers and loading it up for some rides.... to see the handling under load...

thanks for everybody's help, and putting up with my verbosity...

my posts are better than a sleeping pill, yes ?

once again, i'm just so very very excited to be getting the bike...

Blessings all
Procyon

luceberg

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Re: neo-Thorn owner, L.A., many pictures & questions
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2005, 02:09:15 PM »
Procyon,

Just thought I'd mention the your Nomad is of the current geometry. They changed over from a horizontal top tube and slower steering head angle/fork rake in about 1999.

Looking at your photos, I think the frame size may be the same as mine, a 595S. It's a great bike, I love it.
 

Procyon

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Re: neo-Thorn owner, L.A., many pictures & questions
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2005, 06:25:25 PM »
Thank you so much Luceberg,

I figured if I kept saying "old geometry", "new geometry", someone would confirm or deny my pessimistic speculation that i might had the old.    I REALLY appreciate knowing that.  I wasn't sure if the subtle slope of the top tube on mine was the new...  Also, what appeared to me, before last night's ride in the rain, when I finally felt more at ease comfortable and not totally terrified i was buying the wrong bike, the hyper responsiveness of the bike (for the last year i've ridden a very heavy, yet stable, mountain bike), now makes sense, i.e., the new geometry with its touted, and i certainly experience it, more quick and responsive set up, per the SJS Nomad description, for biking about town, as well as pulling one's disassembled cast iron stove up a hill in Nepal...

I had seen your bike and liked it.  I plan to, as soon as i can afford to, buy black fenders for mine also, i prefer a subtle black on black as your beautiful bike exhibits.  Do you have more pictures of yours than the one in front of the brush?

If my bike is the same size as yours i have two questions.  (the first i could find out by looking, i am sure over at the SJS descriptions)

1.  is your bike the biggest of the sizes of Nomads ?

2.  can you tell me how tall you are (preferably in what we call and use in America as "English Measurements" meaning the archaic and nonsensical feet and inch system you abandoned us with, ...i'm teasing of course... while you cleverely changed to metric... but either way)?

3.  and if you have longer legs or a longer torso, etc.

I'm beginning to feel very comfortable on my Thorn (again, i'm limited to little test rides, as i'm still paying for it....) and, as mentioned I am only 5'10" (and that's if i stand up REALLY straight), and had always thought my torso long and legs less so, and yet i was fitted by a vintage lightweight bike mechanic, and he said my legs were suprisingly long, when i got into the bike, as he kept suprisingly raising the saddle and ultimately recommending a taller bike than i was considering....

anyway, I'd be interested.   Thanks for cluing me in on my bike being of the newer geometry, it confirms the responsiveness of the bike, which as I get used to, shall be a very very big advantage, indeed.

I'm expecting a back check in any day, and hope to possibly bring my Nomad home this weekend, months early, on my time plan....

Thanks for your help and encouragement...

Procyon

Procyon

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Re: neo-Thorn owner, L.A., many pictures & questions
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2005, 04:21:43 AM »
I paid it off today and rode my Thorn Nomad home.

If an angel could manifest as a bicycle, I could say it rode like an angel.

I am a very very happy person.

sincerely,

rory (procyon)

luceberg

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Re: neo-Thorn owner, L.A., many pictures & questions
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2005, 12:59:13 PM »
Rory,

Congratulations on your new purchase!

In answer to your questions;

1. It's a toss up between the 595s and the 595L as to which is the biggest. The 595S is tallest and has the longest wheelbase(by 2mm), the 595L has the longest top tube.

2. I'm 6ft 1 1/2ins tall and of average leg/torso proportions.

Thanks for the appreciation of my bike pic. I'm stimulated to take some more photos and post them up in the near future.

By the way, Thorn sizes are virtual, so to check what size your Nomad is, you measure 595mm from the BB up the seat tube, and horizontally across from this point to where the top tube and head tube intersect. That measurement should be 575mm if it's a 595S and 610mm if it's a 595L. Metric sorry.

Best Wishes L

 

Procyon

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Re: neo-Thorn owner, L.A., many pictures & questions
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2005, 12:48:37 AM »
Question : per Luceberg explaining my bike is of the new geometry not the old with the overt factor making this discernment clear, being the sloping top tube.

One reason i thought, initially, that my Nomad might be of the old geometry, besides my ignorance and overall alice-in-wonderland bewilderment with all of this, was that it has a decal on the frame, the seat tube specifically, that says Reynolds 531 tube set.

I had made the, apparently, incorrect assumption that the Nomad's use of the Reynolds 531 ended with the new geometry and my bike then, if new geometry would have had to be Reynolds 725...

Per Luceberg's info, I also confirmed my bike size has the seat tube height of the XL 595 and appears to be with the shorter top tube...  

Does anyone know when the transition to Reynolds 725 took place ?

sincerely,
rory  (procyon)

p.s. riding my new-to-me Nomad everyday now that it's home, (in torrential rains even) and absolutely in love with it...  .  so despite it being technically a bit too big for me, it is working out wonderfully so far.

daveireland

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Re: neo-Thorn owner, L.A., many pictures & questions
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2005, 08:22:18 PM »
Hi Rory
Great pictures of your new bike! I bought a 531-tubed Thorn Nomad in May 2002 and have been delighted with it ever since. My wife bought a Nomad a year later also in Reynolds 531. Not long after that Thorn changed over to 725 for Nomads. She loves her bike. Both our bikes have the later geometry, similar to yours. My first proper bike I bought in 1976, in 531 and it it is still going strong, a Rory O'Brien, made in East London incidentally. 531 will last for ever and can always be repaired if you have an accident. I've also ridden 725-tubed bikes and to be honest, could not tell the difference. Happy cycling.

Dave
 

rogerzilla

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Re: neo-Thorn owner, L.A., many pictures & questions
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2005, 10:02:00 AM »
That's not an especially old one, with the new Thorn logos and A-Head stem.  As for weight, my 545 Nomad weighs 26.5lb without pedals, but with a rear rack.  The wheels are the main culprit - if you don't actually do expedition touring, get the hubs rebuilt onto some MTB XC rims with double-butted spokes.  It makes a big difference and d/b spokes are less prone to breakage (the wheel goes out of true more if they do break, but given a decent build they shouldn't...)
 

hoogie

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Re: neo-Thorn owner, L.A., many pictures & questions
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2005, 09:14:16 PM »
am surpised to hear that the 595S has a longer wheelbase than a 595L ... i would have thought that the slightly longer top tube would have pushed the front wheel out a bit more than on the 595S.

I have a 595L frame, of 2003 vintage made from 725, one of the first of that model ... i find it a really nice bike to ride and very stiff too ... i bought the bare frame and built it up myself to exactly how i wanted it ...
more on it here:http://www.hoogie.co.nz/bikes/nomad.htm