Author Topic: Noisy SON28 dynohub  (Read 7557 times)

il padrone

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Noisy SON28 dynohub
« on: July 14, 2012, 01:12:24 AM »
The SON28 (old model) has been running fine for 18 months/10,000kms. But the other day I realized that when you lift the wheel and spin it there is a really noisy rattle. I was going to post on here, but decided just to get it across to the SON specialist shop - 25kms away. When getting it ready I decided to simplify things for the mechanic and swap out the Pitlock for a standard QR. Then I spun the wheel again...... no noise  :-X

Duffus-moment. The Pitlock was a bit loose - the magnetic notching was causing some level of vibration.


 :D :P

Danneaux

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Re: Noisy SON28 dynohub
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2012, 01:48:50 AM »
Pete!

This is wonderful news! So glad it saved you money and the effort of getting the dynohub serviced. Outstanding.

Your post provided some triangulation for my shimmy-factor investigation, as well. See No. 7 on my list here, and the last two sentences in particular:
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4320.msg20714#msg20714

A couple quick questions:

1) Have you carried a heavy touring load since you last tightened the Pitlock?
2) When you did tighten it, did you do it the usual way in terms of fractional turns and feel, or did you use a torque wrench? I did the torque wrench thing, and my SON bolt-on skewer still loosened on me, though I think it may have been a result of the shimmy, rather than a cause; I still had the shimmy after replacing it with a standard Shimano q/r.

Thanks!

Best,

Dan.

il padrone

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Re: Noisy SON28 dynohub
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2012, 02:27:31 AM »
This is wonderful news! So glad it saved you money and the effort of getting the dynohub serviced. Outstanding.
Yes, it was a very pleasing goof-up, as I was getting a bit depressed at the prospect of a corroded SON hub. It did possibly get a momentary dunking at a water wallow on French Island that was deeper than it looked. I'm not sure how likely this may have been to cause any water ingress.


A couple quick questions:

1) Have you carried a heavy touring load since you last tightened the Pitlock?
2) When you did tighten it, did you do it the usual way in terms of fractional turns and feel, or did you use a torque wrench? I did the torque wrench thing, and my SON bolt-on skewer still loosened on me, though I think it may have been a result of the shimmy, rather than a cause; I still had the shimmy after replacing it with a standard Shimano q/r.
I have had a load on it since tightening the Pitlock.

To tell the truth I can't recall exactly when I last tightened it (I normally don't feel the need to tighten the QRs). It would have been close to 6 moths ago. I had tightened it with a screwdriver through the holes, but then looked again at the torque specs and thought it was probably over-done, so loosened it off a bit. It was not loose, but soft enough that I could use the Pitlock with the key-ring it is on to get leverage to remove it.

I shall use a tool to give a little more leverage in future.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2012, 02:29:03 AM by il padrone »

jags

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Re: Noisy SON28 dynohub
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2012, 11:00:49 AM »
lads if you never leave your bike out of sight then why ust those pitlock  thingies more trouble than there worth. ::)

keleher

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Re: Noisy SON28 dynohub
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2012, 12:31:22 PM »
lads if you never leave your bike out of sight then why ust those pitlock  thingies more trouble than there worth. ::)

Not sure how you can go on a tour w/o occasionally letting your bike out of sight.

Danneaux

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Re: Noisy SON28 dynohub
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2012, 05:21:01 PM »
Hi All!

With regard to the above, I'm still a bit on the fence about how best to secure everything (including the wheels/hubs and charging system) when I have to leave the bike to shop for groceries while on-tour alone. I currently use a Shimano q/r to secure the SON28 dunohub to the forks.

For the brief amount of time I must leave the bike alone (and in really rural places), I think my present strategy would make it difficult for a thief to make away with the bike, wheels, or accessories:

1) I installed and use a ring-lock on the rear wheel. The ring-lock accepts a plug-in cable that is long enough to secure both wheels and the frame and still go 'round a solid, closed object like a bike rack. The loaded bike is not light, and would be unexpectedly hard to lift or transport, and the ring-lock secures the rear wheel from turning so the bike can't be rolled.

2) The front wheel and fork are secured with a u-lock to the downtube and (depending on how it is is configured, also is secured to the same post or closed parking rack as the cable plugged into the ring-lock).

3) The bike and bags are loaded and heavy, and the bags are secured to the racks using separate compression straps with the Fastex release buckles on the underside of the bags, where one has to kneel or squat, then bend over to even see them.

4) The panniers (the front ones cover the hub q/r) have double mounting hooks and retention fins, and must be tilted and removed with both hands to release them after releasing the compression straps and cutting the Ortlieb anti-theft tethers.

5) Each of my Ortlieb panniers has a security cable/tether in the mounting rails. The rear tethers are captured by the tang of the ring-lock. The front tethers are captured by the U-lock.

All of this makes it harder to steal the wheels from the bike when I have to briefly leave it parked alone while in a grocery story while solo touring.

As for The Plug, it replaces the top-cap on the threadless headset. I simply drop a ball bearing into the allen-socket. Unless the bike is tipped or inverted (impossible when locked), it can't be easily removed except by one method that a thief is unlikely to have readily at hand.

The rear rack-top load is secured to itself with Fastex buckles, then fastened to the rack as a module using Arno straps and all loose cords are clipped to the rack using Nite-Ize quick-links (spring-loaded stainless mini-carabiners) as "safety wires" to prevent complete loss due to vibration-induced loosening of the load on rough roads.

I also have that little Chinese-made motion-detecting alarm mounted to the seatpost, and it does make a startling noise if one is not expecting it. If the bike were alone and secured outside a primitive pit-toilet, I would still hear the alarm when inside and know the bike or bags were being bothered.

Hopefully, this will help keep everything together in the 15 minutes or so maximum I will be in the store. Combine that with parking at the ofttimes co-located petrol station next to the little stores I frequent, and foot traffic should be high enough to prevent a thief from going to the trouble he'd need to in the time available.

All the best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2012, 11:34:43 PM by Danneaux »

keleher

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Re: Noisy SON28 dynohub
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2012, 06:46:01 PM »
You guys seem very concerned about these issues. I don't like leaving my bike unattended in downtown Washington DC, and I wouldn't leave my good bike outside a movie theater in this area.

However, most of my touring has been in US west, or west coast, and I don't even take a u-lock on those, nor does almost anyone else. A simple (easily breakable) cablelock is mostly used.  Our general presumption is that most people won't even be able to get our loaded touring bikes moving, much less quickly ride off on it. Also, most people want lightweight carbon-fiber bikes. Thorns are not that.

The only thing I've ever had stolen was my biologic recharge battery and cable, when locked up outside the National Air & Space museum in downtown DC. That was a bit stupid on my part.

I've never had anything else stolen. If that's the case here (in the US!), I'd think this should be even less of an issue anywhere else.

Danneaux

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Re: Noisy SON28 dynohub
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2012, 08:04:02 PM »
Oh, boy, we're getting far from the original post by Il Padrone about the loose skewer causing his dynohub to be noisy, but I can offer a sad counterpoint...

Quote
I've never had anything else stolen. If that's the case here (in the US!), I'd think this should be even less of an issue anywhere else.

I wish the whole issue required less vigilence where I live in Oregon in the northwest corner of the US. Here, methamphetamine addiction is at record rates among the general populace, the economy is poor, and bikes are stolen and traded regularly on street corners for as little as $5 or the next hit of Meth or sold for scrap metal for the same reasons. Our street-corner beggars have bikes far nicer than you would expect for people passed-out in a field; they're stolen. A walk down River Road yesterday revealed a nearly new Kona Sutra, a Rivendell Atlantis complete with Bombadil bag, and a Moots titanium...again in the possession of people with no homes, no income, and no possessions except for a small backpack, used as a pillow as they lie unconscious in their own sputum.

About once a year or so, our local newspaper carries a fresh story about a touring pair or family or individual traveling through town and having their loaded touring bikes stolen while in the grocery store getting supplies. The last story was a happy one, when a single touring bike and tandem were both stolen from a Safeway store on Coburg Road and later found by alert residents, stashed in the stairwell of an apartment building behind the store. The couple's wallets and laptop were missing, along with the information on them, but they got back their bikes and most possessions. They were extremely lucky and such recovery just does not happen very often. This was a first to my knowledge.

My city and county are extremely poor, and taxpayers have chosen to arm themselves in lieu of supporting public safety levies they see as ineffective and overpriced. A bit more than 1 in 20 people have concealed-carry gun permits, and I would estimate easily twice that number carry guns without a permit. The local outlet for Cabela's sporting goods (hunting and fishing, mostly) sell lavender and pink guns geared toward women, though most I know prefer the standard black Glocks, blued-steel revolvers or stainless-steel finish on automatics. Our local dentists' and doctors' offices have signs asking patients to place their weapons in secure office lockers for the duration of their procedures.  We have only 16 sheriff's deputies for a population of 351,715 people in a county of 4,722 sq mi (12,230 kmē). Among all agencies -- State, County, and individual cities, there are fewer than 400 total police officers in the entire county. Police no longer respond to property crimes regardless of value, and do not take reports. If one's computer has not yet been stolen, it can be used to auto-file an online report for an insurance claim. We no longer have government-funded animal control and we don't have a coroner or medical examiner, which means bodies are sometimes left on-scene for some time before collection, murders cannot be adequately investigated, and the court system is in ruins. The County Jail has released 90+% of its population in stages over a couple weeks this summer because there is no funding to keep it open, feed the inmates, or guard the prisoners. The Public Defenders' office cannot provide attorneys and even the most violent offenders -- including those accused of murder -- often spend two hours to overnight in jail before being released with an ankle-bracelet to monitor their whereabouts...except there is no money to monitor them, and they often miss their scheduled court dates or fail to check in with court officers.

Meanwhile any sort of metal that is possible to steal is converted to cash for the purchase of methamphetamines, which are driving nearly all property crimes here. Bicycles, car and truck trailer hitches, house rain gutters, the underground water valves for schools and government offices (expensive flooding results) and the bronze plaques and nameplates from cemetery gravestones have all been prized off and melted down. The catalytic converters are stolen from cars parked in driveways (my neighbor, a roofer, lost his last year), and the City and County have had to hoist 2,500lb concrete blocks over the access doors to the underground electrical vaults supplying the bike path lights. It hasn't helped. Over 2 miles of valuable copper wire was stolen two years ago by a gang that rented a backhoe to lift the blocks and wore neon safety vests and hard hats, pretending to be electrical contractors doing work for the County.
http://projects.registerguard.com/turin/2009/sep/09/bike-path-goes-dark-after-theft-of-wire/
http://search.kval.com/default.aspx?ct=r&q=%22wire%20theft%22
None of the public questioned them (I saw them myself and shrugged; looked official to me) and the goverment lacked funding to check on them directly or confirm the work was false. My residential phone service regularly goes down because thieves break into junction boxes trying to steal eben those hair-fine wires for resale to metal recyclers.

It is a mess. It is anarchy. It is sad, it is tragic, it represents an incredible loss of human capital, and it is heartbreaking. There is no funding for targeted drug intervention or social services. Most of the addicted are in terrible physical shape otherwise, suffering from unmet medical needs and often severe malnutrition and dehydration as a result of their lifestyle and addictions. There is effectively no local law enforcement and no funding for prosecution, diversion, incarceration, or rehabilitation. I really can't believe the state things have reached here. Man, I hate and despise drugs and the lengths they push people to go. I vote for and support public safety levies, but this is a democracy and the majority rules. There's not a lot I can do except volunteer to make the community safer and better in other ways.

In the photos below (taken in a field blocks away from my home) -- as previously -- I called the police when I saw the junction box being ripped apart by the now-sleeping nearby resident. Having previously been told 911 is only for reporting emergencies, I called the non-emergency number and was again informed property crimes are not being investigated. I called the phone company instead and they placed the box on their waiting list for repairs. It is sad and dangerous when wire theft results in intersection traffic controls being rendered inoperable, but it happens periodically. With the jails releasing even violent offenders, there's really no penalties for wire theft and property crimes, so the police assign them a low priority. They're not even prosecutable offenses in the present economic climate.

It really makes me worry about riding my bike, and I lock it in the livingroom inside my locked house, rather than in the locked garage. Every one of my neighbors have lost their bikes, and that means right next door and across the street, and from fully fenced backyards and locked garages.

Some links for those interested:
http://projects.registerguard.com/web/updates/27962402-55/concealed-county-handgun-permit-lane.html.csp
http://projects.registerguard.com/web/opinion/28152397-47/concealed-handgun-safe-county-lane.html.csp
http://www.registerguard.com/web/newslocalnews/28305571-41/jail-county-inmates-releases-budget.html.csp
http://www.kmtr.com/news/local/story/Nearly-400-inmates-released-from-the-Lane-County/Tb8NaybDeU6TKTidqmpd8Q.cspx
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/16/lane-county-oregon-releasing-inmates_n_1677546.html

So, yeah, I've found I have to give some thought to theft and loss-prevention when using my bike, and I lock it whenever I am off it, even while only a few feet away, changing my jacket or tights or taking a photograph. I can't afford not to. This is no longer the same place where I grew up. It is as beautiful as ever outside the City, but my big worry is not the wild animals, but people. I feel safest in truly remote areas where it is only me. That's also why I take such care to stealth-camp where I cannot be seen or robbed while sleeping -- a not uncommon occurrance in my area, and a particular hazard when touring solo or camping here, especially in county and state parks.

Whew.

Best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2012, 11:30:17 PM by Danneaux »

keleher

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Re: Noisy SON28 dynohub
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2012, 09:31:40 PM »
Dan, that's a truly horrific picture you are painting, and incredibly sad. Oregon is one of the most beautiful places on earth. I think I've actually been on that path, coming in from the coast after finishing a trip that was essentially the western third of the trans-am.

Here in DC it at least seems better, but of course that's because middle-class folk never go to the southeast of the city.