Author Topic: Brooks Braking in.  (Read 6783 times)

Paul S

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Brooks Braking in.
« on: July 08, 2012, 12:14:26 pm »
Thanks to some anonymous git pinching my Flyer Special  >:( I have reverted to a Standard B17 which is proving remarkably reluctant to brake in with a combination of Mile upon Mile & Proofide.

Maybe I just have an unusually stubborn one but......

Have any of you guys used the 'Oil Soak' method's described in  Sheldon Browns article on Leather Saddles?

Paul.
Peddle Power = Will Power...... & the right gears.

julk

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Re: Brooks Braking in.
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2012, 01:28:52 pm »
Paul,
Have you put a good layer of proofide on the underneath side of the leather?
I found this helped my latest saddle break in nicely.
Julian.

6527richardm

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Re: Brooks Braking in.
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2012, 01:54:48 pm »
I have had several B17's and I have found them to be comfortable from the off.

Before using them I have coated both top and bottom with proof hide so it may be worth trying that.

As an aside I recently bought a Team Pro and they seems much harder and I think it will take sometime before I consider it to be comfortable but I will give it some time before writing it off.

Paul S

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Re: Brooks Braking in.
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2012, 02:18:00 pm »
Have you put a good layer of proofide on the underneath side of the leather?

Thanks guys,  I did apply proofide straight out of the box and left it allone for the Saddle to absorb while riding. I have been applying small amounts of proofide to the upper surfaces roughly monthly.

I am now approaching 750 miles with a second application to the underside at 500 miles which is why S B's method of soaking from within with oil caught my eye.

I had a B17 before My Flyer S and I agree both were comfortable from the off. Both were also my rear ends best friend within 500 m :D

Paul.
Peddle Power = Will Power...... & the right gears.

Danneaux

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Re: Brooks Braking in.
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2012, 07:32:25 pm »
Hi Paul!

What a shame someone took your Flyer Special!

I'm sorry you're having trouble breaking in your B.17 -- being natural products (the leather portion, anyway), they do vary from sample to sample, and some are a bit thicker or tougher than their brethren.

My method with hard samples has been the same as Julian's -- more Proofide, and especially on the underside, where one's ischial tuberosities (sit-bones) rest.

That said, my lovely honey-colored B.17 Champion Special is unusually thick, and just is not breaking in at anywhere near the rate of my others. It is considerably thicker as well, and that has to be a factor. The additional Proofide on the underside has helped, but not to the degree I would have hoped. Fortunately, I  prefer a firm, slightly convex saddle, and I think this one will give me my wish for years to come!

My other B.17s were comfortable straight out of the box, with one example actually breaking in way too fast/far, and becoming unsuitable/uncomfortable for me at the 200-mile mark. I sold it on eBay and the buyer wrote and thanked me for selling him the most comfortable saddle he'd ever used! Saddles vary, and so do people.

As for the oil-soak method...I've never tried it, but have noticed the saddles so treated have darkened considerably, if that is a consideration (especially for the non-black models).

If you give it a try, will you let us know how you fare?

Best,

Dan.

Andre Jute

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Re: Brooks Braking in.
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2012, 12:54:47 am »
Have any of you guys used the 'Oil Soak' method's described in  Sheldon Browns article on Leather Saddles?

Yes, I soaked my B73 in neatsfoot oil. The first thing to note is that the oil will change the colour. My honey-coloured saddle came out a mid-brown but Sheldon had already written to me that I should expect a colour change with use (Sheldon's last letter before his death was to me, though probably not on this subject). This is not the same "brown" as you can buy from Brooks (that's much darker), but more of a chestnut brown, a medium tan as it is technically called in the shoe trade.

The method I used was to place a baking pan on the kitchen counter, place the saddle in it upside down, and pour in a stable-size can of neatsfoot oil. The neatsfoot oil ran through the holes in the saddle and over the edges and quickly coated both sides. I left the saddle in for 20 minutes and then took it out. I drained the pan, wiped it dry, and put the saddle back in, right side up, to use the pan as a drip tray. After 24 hours I wiped the top of the saddle with a soft cloth. Then I fitted the saddle to my bike and, wearing black track suit bottoms, went out riding.

I was warned by the usual abusive clowns on RBT that my saddle would overstretch and be ruined, and a few gloated that the same treatment I applied to my Brooks handlebar grips would leave my hands greasy. (It apparently never occurred these fellows that I routinely cycle in leather dress gloves, summer and winter, and never put my skin on the handlebar grips.)

The results have been entirely beneficial. The B73 is basically a B66 or 67 (I can never remember which of those is the men's saddle) with a coil spring at each corner, often said to be the most comfortable Brooks saddle straight out of the box, but spurned by the "experts" because it is supposedly sways from side to side. It's BS. I weigh 215 pounds, I'm a masher not a spinner, and I have a sense of orientation of all my body parts finely developed in motor racing, stunt flying and offshore speedboats, as well as on polo ponies, where balance is everything. The B73 doesn't sway on its springs. I found it comfortable enough out of the box but the neatsfoot oil made a huge difference in helping shape the leather to my sit bones, and thus to my comfort, albeit not as quickly as I had been told or hoped. We're talking about several hundred miles before you feel, suddenly, that your saddle has taken a big step.

Can you speed up the process further? Should you? In twenty minutes my saddle wasn't soaked through, nowhere near. In fact, if you scratch the underside of my saddle with a fingernail, the thin layer of neatsfoot comes off and you see bright natural colour leather. So you could leave the saddle in the neatsfoot longer, forty minutes or an hour. I haven't tried it. I wouldn't advise anyone to be in too much of a hurry to try it.

So far, in something over 3000 miles since my Brooks saddle assumed the shape of my ischial tuberosities, I have made less than a turn of tightening adjustment, and none in the last 18 months, so the leather hasn't been unduly stretched. I'm a very long way from having to lace the saddle to return its shape. Visually, from the side, my saddle has a flat top, and neither by eye nor by touch can the softening be found, but my bum knows the difference. (Not as big an improvement as people on B17s and other unsprung Brooks saddles claim, but then my saddle was comfortable out of the box, and is well-sprung, which I think takes care of micro vibrations more than of the bigger bumps, for which the hammock design of the leather is responsible. It should also be noted that I ride on low pressure balloons, 60mm Big Apples, so the ride is naturally smooth to start with. But when I put my B73 on an unforgivingly stiff ali bike with unforgivingly harsh Marathon Plus tyres, the saddle was a 100% improvement over an expensive Selle Royale gel job, a Terry anatomic design, and of course over the narrow "sporting" saddles that various bikes came with. That's probably the true test.)

Neatsfoot oil is cheap enough, and doesn't make the leather nasty to clothes or hands, and it is proven by use in stables. Most important, it doesn't stop you using Brooks Proofide on the topside for routine maintenance, which is what I do once a year (I use very little). But Sheldon thought using motor oil was equally good and reported that a friend of his soaked his Brooks saddles in clean motor oil for 24 hours for a much quicker break-in. I imagine the leather would come out pretty black. A saddle soaked in motor oil mustn't be expected to last forever, it seems, as the friend was said to have done this to many saddles.



The photo shows four colours of "brown" leather. The handlebar bag and the mixte rail protectors are both "light tan", the saddle is "medium tan" or "mid-brown" or even "chestnut", the rear saddlebag is "brown". This is what a honey Brooks saddle soaked in neatsfoot oil looks like. The darker shade on top is from use. Notice that 20 minutes of neatsfoot soak and perhaps three very light layers of Proofide to the top in three years have not penetrated far, as can be seen from the fact that the nose of the saddle lighten perceptibly with the scuffing of use.

Andre jute

il padrone

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Re: Brooks Braking in.
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2012, 04:30:10 am »
Another approach (equally contrary to Brooks recommendations) is the water-soak method. Soak it in water for a while then put it back on the bike and go for a 10-20km ride. It should stretch and conform to your posterior. Then leave it to dry thoroughly.

I have not done this but have heard from others that have used the method that it is quite effective. Just be sure not to ride it too far while wet.

Paulson

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Re: Brooks Braking in.
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2012, 08:47:47 pm »
I soaked by Brooks B17 standard in neatsfoot oil when brand new, last year.  As Andre says it darkens the colour noticeably.  Didi it have any other effects? Yes.  The leather is now palpably softer and much more flexible - I have never repeated the treatment.

I have also purposely never adjusted the tension either, because I can see that the softening is marked enough to potentially make the leather stretch under extreme pressure.

It's had the desired effect of making the saddle much more comfortable for me.
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Danneaux

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Re: Brooks Braking in.
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2012, 09:48:52 pm »
Quote
It's had the desired effect of making the saddle much more comfortable for me.
Thanks for the report, Paul! It sounds like it was "just enough" for your comfort and needs, and therefore a complete success.

'Sure nice to accumulate more data on how this technique works so the results can become predictable for others' success.

Nice report!

Best,

Dan. (who prefers his saddles pretty hard and unbroken-in for as long as possible, but enjoys learning what works for others)

mickeg

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Re: Brooks Braking in.
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2012, 01:52:30 pm »
I soak a new Brooks in cold water for about 15 to 30 seconds (not minutes) to get it moist, not wet.  Put it on the bike and ride a few miles but stay close to home so that if you get the saddle shape to where you want it you can get off the bike.  Repeat if necessary, add a bit of soaking time if necessary.  The key is that you do not want to get the leather too wet, only moist. 

I do the above until I get the saddle shape to where I want it.  Then and only then do I apply any Proofhide. 

I have also heard of people wearing a wet swim suit when they go for a ride to moisten the leather.

StuntPilot

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Re: Brooks Braking in.
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2012, 07:28:57 pm »
Comfort has never been a long-term problem with my B17 Select. It was a bit uncomfortable for the first 200 km, but now its fantastic. I often cycle some distance without padded shorts. No problem. Even though it is a stiffer leather than the other B17s, I would recommend the Select model, especially if doing long-distance tours. It is very durable. I tend to think that softening the saddle with oils and other techniques is detrimental to long-term comfort and the life of the leather. Perseverance is the name of the game.

I have regularly applied several coats of Proofhide since new which helps. A tip would be to apply a coat of Scarpa HS12 walking boot cream twice a year, particularly if you live in a humid or wet environment. The HS12 cream seems to be very similar to Proofhide with the addition of silicon.

Scarpa Information ... http://www.scarpa.co.uk/technical/leather/

I have used HS12 for many years on my walking boots. Here in Scotland you can walk all day in the rain, cross burns, and generally abuse your walking boots and they remain impermeable after several weeks. With a regular application of HS12, real leather boots remain totally waterproof. What about on a saddle?

So I thought I would try it on the Brooks saddle. So far so good; it works well. No softening of the saddle leather, no discolouration, no adverse effects. Apply and leave the saddle overnight in a warm dry location.

The Brooks is a great saddle. However, sometimes you have to admit defeat with a leather saddle!
« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 07:50:09 pm by StuntPilot »