Proud owner of a secondhand Thorn...w/o model name on top tube Is this an XTC?

[JWestland]

Hello -

I am now the proud owner of a secondhand Thorn...w/o model name on top tube... :S

It (her/she?) and me are going for a run this weekend test run so far indicates this is a quality piece of bike. It just "feels right". Reach is slightly too long, nothing a short stem can't fix.

It seems you can't post images here so here's the link to the e-bay listing, which also has a full parts listing:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170799930556?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

I looked for a serial number (can't find one, look at bottom bracket everywhere on frame) or a model stamp (can't find one, not under strips either)
It looks an awful lot like an XTC (3 bottle braze-ons, it's not an audax or sherpa, judging by Thorn logo style it's not a new model), looks an awful lot like XTC listed on e-bay, but there's no XTC stamp on it.

Am I right in thinking this is an XTC?

Tx ^_^

Jawine

[rualexander]

Looks very much like an XTC but why it doesn't have the model name on it or a serial number seems a bit odd. It also doesn't have the Reynolds frame material sticker on the seat tube that others have. The XTC decal would normally be where the white tape bands are on your bike.

[brummie]

XTC.
 Reynolds frame transfers were placed on top of the lacquer so could easily be peeled off.. Also on later XTC's the tubing was upgraded to 853 ( Except the seat tube ) so the 853 transfer was often placed on the downtube.

An Ebay bargain BTW ! - Mr Blances rather fancy upgraded XTC is available on the Thorn website for considerably more.

[Danneaux]

Hey! Congratulations, Jawine! So glad you got the new bike! I found the listing, and was kind of hoping one of "us" on the Forum would get it so we might learn a bit more and...you did! Yay!

May you ride it in good health and happiness for the rest of your days together, with sunshine, tailwinds, and smooth roads.

Just delighted for you! You must be in a state of "XTC". 

All the best,

Dan.

[JWestland]

Hi

Thanks for the replies!

The shop hasn't given an owner history, there are nicks that are touched-up, and ones that are not so I suspect at least 2 owners.

Some minor rust marks, nothing serious, where the pump was at the bottom there are some scuffs, drop-outs etc.

I took the reflective tape off, not my thing.

I had another look underneath the bottom bracket the serial seems to be (some characters hard to read)

(EDIT serial removed as this is readable to all and sundry that can use Google...)

Can this be traced to a production year?

Took it for a short spin, the reach is a little long, hopefully with short stem/narrow handlebars (also too wide) it will be fine. Very hard to get second-hand tourers of any kind that fit me. And if you get a bike...might as well a great one. Lovely joints and workmanship. And it just runs super smooth, hill...what hill.

So some questions:

How long was the XTC range made? I can't find good history on google...
Was this one still made in England? I read somewhere some XTC were still made in the SJS cycles workshop routinely, now *i believe* most Thorns are made in Taiwan. Up to the same standard no doubt

No XTC yet...bit nervous reach won't be right after swapping for smaller parts so no bike love yet until I am sure it fits. I just don't dare yet

Tx!

Jawine

[Danneaux]

Jawine,

My 2001 edition of my Open Road Encycleopedia describes the XTC thusly:

The Thorn XTC is a light all-round tourer, suitable for long day-rides, moderate off-road use and lightweight camping. The tubes are low-temperature brazed into cast lugs, joints are carefully filed, and the frames are treated internally with Waxoyl preservative.

Jawine, I realize there isn't a lot to go on in that description, and unlike the fully lugged example pictured and described in the 2001 Encycleopedia, your appears to be lugless fillet-brazed at the top and down tubes, anyway, with a bi-laminate lug at the seat collar (lug with fillet-brazed overlay).

Given the construction, I think there's little doubt it was made in England, and most likely by Kevin Sayles, formerly and lately of Woodrup, with service at Thorn in the middle. It is just possible he might remember something and could fill in a few blanks regarding the general era it was built. Have you tried contacting Thorn/SJS Cycles? I understand they unfortunately do no keep serial numbers cross-referenced with owners, but may have some records showing general timespan of your build.

I'll dig a bit deeper in my files, and see what I can find. Anything more, and I'll post it for you.

Fingers crossed it can be made a perfect fit for you; collective breath held in the meantime. If you need any help on achieving a good fit, give us a shout.

Best,

Dan.

[sg37409]

Not 100% certain, but it does look like an XTC. I have a 2000 SWB XTC and it looks the same.

Mines undergone a couple of rebuilds, I still use it a lot, its a lovely ride.

[JWestland]

Thanks for the replies

Went to cycle shop, as the head stem is 25.4 mm and most are larger these days nothing in stock. No freewheel hub either (bit of play) so will order online and get it fixed (thanks to my cycle nut boyfriend!) next week.

So going for a 7 cm head stem instead of 12, then hopefully it's comfortable. We are going cycling tomorrow for a day...see how it goes.

I found Kevin's flickr page, will leave a comment and see what he says and e-mail Thorn.

There are paint chips etc... is this paint colour still available? Or is it better to touch up the rest and leave it alone?

[Danneaux]

Jawine,

I believe I have found the twin to your XTC (xTc) here:
http://www.team-triplet.com/TTSite/xtc1.htm
The owner might be able to help in dating the bicycle, as they appear to have kept careful records on their bikes, but I don't see any contact link or information on the site. Perhaps if Stephen is reading, he will contact you on the Forum. The xTc on his site dates from August 2004. It has also been superbly maintained, and the owner might have a lead on touch-up paint. I do recall reading that Humbrol make a number of paints that are a good color match for Thorn's choices, especially on older frames.

A Cycling Plus magazine test in 2003 shows essentially the same bike as yours, but without the SS couplers. See:
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/thornpdf/CP148XtcTestScreen.pdf

Given the great similarity in color, the presence of fillet-brazing and a bi-laminate seat lug, and the S&S couplers, I believe yours may date from roughly 2003-2004 or so.

Hope this helps. If I turn up more, I'll post it.

Best,

Dan.

[brummie]

Older Lugged XTC ( & SWB XTC's) were made on site by Thorn cycles. Kevin Sayles was one of 3 framebuilders @ the time... The Fillet Brazed models were made in batches by LA cycles in Coventry.

[JWestland]

Tx

So LA cycles closed but it seems the guys who had it are still going:
http://leecoopercycles.webs.com/aboutus.htm

They mentioned production moved to Taiwan in 2005...so that and the team-triplet site suggests a 2003-2004 model. I e-mailed Thorn also, see what they say.

My top tube length is 525mm seat post tube is 500mm. So it's slightly different from the one from team triplet but frame is in same style, though mine missed the 853 stickers. Either mine was made before this upgrade (pre-2004?) or the transfer simply rubbed off.

SJS has touch up paint from Humbrol but I don't see it on their site for this colour, again I can ask.

However, some people advice against touching up and only treat rust.

I wouldn't know I just go berserk when I see any rust and get the Hammerite rust stopper out, I even touch up the bolts on my other good bike.

It's very hard to touch up scuffs perfectly what do you tend to do? Apart from a rather drastic full strip and repaint?

[Danneaux]

Jawine,

It's very hard to touch up scuffs perfectly what do you tend to do? Apart from a rather drastic full strip and repaint?

These threads should prove helpful:
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3895.0
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3864.0
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3053.0
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=1286.0
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=2685.0
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3069.0

Best,

Dan.

[JWestland]

Tx

Taken for quick spin after maintenance, turns out the quick release at the back is stuck too, axle stuck, spring gone so need a new QR and axle too.

(grrrr...)

But nothing major otherwise. Off for cycle tomorrow...going to need rain gear, alas :S

[Danneaux]

turns out the quick release at the back is stuck too, axle stuck, spring gone so need a new QR and axle too

Darn! Y'know the seller knew that, too. When I sell something on eBay, I take great pains to list every possible fault and flaw, or I simply repair it to near-perfection so the new owner won't get stuck with a problem. It would reflect poorly on me and compromise the fun and joy for them if I did otherwise.

(grrrr...)

Indeed!

But nothing major otherwise

Well, that's good! Taken overall, these are minor things and will soon be forgotten in the usage. When I run across such things, I remind myself I'm not brand-new either and have a few scrapes and scratches to lend character.

Say I forgot to note on the paint links above...automotive clear-coat rubbing compound is fine enough to remove scuffs or render them invisible without attacking the color coat below. It's always worked well for freshening my bikes after every decade or so of use.

Stay dry! Hope you both have a nice ride.

Best,

Dan.

[JWestland]

Ripping some road today along with the boyfriend/other half etc etc.

About 60 km along coastal paths in Northern Ireland.
So there are not many cycle lanes here but for people willing to take 2 lane roads there are many nice sights, coast with hills

Weather ok...until me and the boyfriend got soaked up to the socks on the way back. The classic 10 miles to go, here comes the rain!
If anybody can recommend overshoes that WORK that would be good

I can't really compare tourers, this is my first but it rolls very smooth, feels very stable and I know a lot of people are bitching about weight of bikes, but it doesn't feel heavy! I got a 10.5 kg 42/18 singlespeed, the XTC is at least 12.5 I believe but it doesn't feel like it as it stops starts smoothly. Some minor hills today eg not super steep ones, going for a mile and a bit, going up them fast enough. I am not heavy myself though, that can help.

Some very confused looks by other cyclists today in the expect road bike, got bike. Drop bars: Check Ultegra gearing: Check 'Weird' geometry: ? Steel frame: ?? 26 inch wheels WHAT IS THIS??? Priceless

Some minor niggles:

Brakes not super responsive. OK if dry not great downhill/into the wet.

Back freewheel/freehub/axle need replaced, that's all on order, right now it doesn't roll as smooth as it can, instead of accelerating downhill it peters out quickly due to drag.

Braking not very comfy due to position of fingers on levers, narrower handlebars/shorter stem can probably sort this out. Itching to swap the shimano rubber over hoods and tape both looking a bit tatty.

Since the pedals of my singlespeed are on it, it will more action the coming weeks