Author Topic: Drivetrain efficiency research: Rohloff v derailleur v? (Kyle/Berto study, 2001)  (Read 5144 times)

Danneaux

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Hi All,

Currently under the influence of a bad cold; my head is filled with green cheese and my lungs sound like a stick rattling in a swill bucket, so I may have missed mention of this in the archives. If so, apologies. If not, then it is an interesting -- if decade-plus old -- comparison of drivetrain efficiencies. Shimano's 27-sp drivetrain is compared to various others, including Rohloff, and some interesting efficiency and loss curves are plotted. The article's results have been referred to from time to time, but I haven't seen a link to the entire article posted to the Forum.

Technical Journal of the IHPVA-No. 52, Summer 2001, The Mechanical Efficiency of Bicycle Derailleur and Hub-gear Transmissions, by Chester R. Kyle, Ph.D. and Frank Berto. Link opens as a PDF:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=frank+berto+on+rohloff+hub&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CDwQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ihpva.org%2FHParchive%2FPDF%2Fhp52-2001.pdf&ei=I8xwT-qvLuGQiQLW8K3BBQ&usg=AFQjCNH7dA58WmT3IM78RXy5othd5ItONQ

Since the authors are looking for which drivetrain is most efficient mechanically, the article is written from that (reasonable) perspective. An analysis of which drivetrain is most suited for a given environment or use is beyond the scope of the research, nor is much attention paid to declining efficiency as a consequence of weather, maintenance (or lack thereof), and dirt buildup and wear over time. It is important to note that not all gear combinations are equally efficient, and this premise holds for derailleur gearing as much as for internally-geared hubs like Rohloff. Cross-chain combinations and use of smaller cogs results in declining efficiency with derailleurs just as some gear combinations are less efficient in a Rohloff due to higher internal friction losses. In all drivetrains, higher gears were less efficient, most likely due to greater chain-wrap losses (small gears mean less contact and more acute wrap angles for the chains).

[EDIT: It has been over a decade since this study was done, and Rohloff have reformulated their oil several times in the interim. It would be interesting to see if the Rohloff performs even better now, thanks to "oil tuning" and any refinements in manufacturing.]

The researchers are certainly well-respected in the field of human-powered vehicle research and gearing. These sorts of tests are notoriously difficult to conduct and the results are always open to interpretation to some degree, given the methodological constraints. Nevertheless, it is a terrific effort and makes for a good read. I also liked the article on riding with a flat front tire, rim/tire bead diameters and the Springwalker patent illustration. <-- Want.  ;D

Best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2012, 10:52:39 PM by Danneaux »

Andre Jute

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Thanks for that, Dan. Sorry to hear you have a cold.

As their chosen examples justifying the importance of their work make abundantly clear, Kyle and Berto's approach is not unreasonable as a first approach for a racing team where the rider is given a meticulously clean, unworn derailleur transmission on his bike every time, and it is cleaned for him the moment the bike comes to rest.

We aren't racing teams, much as some would like to pretend, even me (cf Tour of Ireland with Lance & André http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLETourofIrelandwithLance&Andre.pdf ) It would be interesting to make a similar controlled comparison between sets of derailleurs with 3000m/5000km on them in the hands of the average commuters, with Rohloff boxes not yet serviced, and with unserviced Shimano Nexus and Alfine boxes. (I justify this by the widespread belief that a Nexus box -- and by extension, an Alfine box -- requires no service during its lifetime. I defy those whose opinion differ to show me the service instructions for the Nexus in the first ten years of its existence and marketing to the general public. That oil bath appeared many years after the Nexus was launched.)

The results will be very different. An untended derailleur transmission goes downhill by notable stages, whereas a closed transmission deteriorates very slowly indeed, often imperceptibly (until it comes to a sudden breakpoint).

In the particular case of the Rohloff, we might also try somehow to factor in the widespread suspicion that Herr Rohloff, in CYA mode, set the oil change interval unnaturally short at 5k clicks, that with the existing oil it could reasonably be 10,000km/6000m. (No, I'm not offering to let my Rohloff be the guinea pig for long service intervals. I rather like Herr Rohloff's de facto lifetime warranty for those who keep faith with him.)

Andre Jute
« Last Edit: March 27, 2012, 10:01:31 PM by Hobbes »

Danneaux

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[Thanks for the well-wishes, Andre; better today!]
Quote
Kyle and Berto's approach is not unreasonable as a first approach for a racing team...It would be interesting to make a similar controlled comparison between sets of derailleurs with 3000m/5000km on them in the hands of the average commuters...The results will be very different.
Agreed, Andre, agreed! I have seen commuters' grunged-up derailleur drivetrains that were so packed with mud, grit, and months (years?) of neglect, the derailleur pulleys would snatch-seize and release a half-dozen times with every turn of the crank. Maintenance is just not high on the list of priorities for many people. There is no question in my mind that under neglectful conditions, the shielded, internally-geared hub would very soon eclipse the derailleur drivetrain in efficiency and parts service life. All but the drive cog and chain are shielded, after all, and there is no deflection away from an ideal chainline.

Reading the results of the research brought another thought to mind, though I've never seen it investigated. The authors make a point of saying the drivetrains were less efficient in higher gears, and this held true for derailleur drivetrains too. It was a bit of a revelation/shock for me to realize high gear on my Deore cassette is exactly the same size as the 11t derailleur pulleys. In the past, those pulleys were 10t, and I've always been fascinated at how tightly the chain has been forced 'round the small radii of the tension and jockey pulleys. They aren't under a great deal of tension, but that tight wrapping has got to be source for a huge amount of wrap-induced flex-wear, as the chain about folds double on itself one way and then the other with every passage through the pair of pulleys. I know the greatest cause and source of oil-fling is this very same tight wrap. If it is tight enough to actually eject oil from the rollers, then it also has to be a major source of wear. As a derailleur user, I find myself wishing for the much larger, red plastic pulleys Shimano fit to their budget line of steel derailleurs on department-store bikes. Methinks they're onto something.

I also recall seeing Roger Durham's comparative test data on derailleur pulley bearing friction in the late-1970s, when he came out with his line of Bullseye shielded cartridge-bearing alloy pulleys. They aways made a perceptible difference for me and lasted far longer than the old sleeved bushing design which is largely still with us. Only Simpex/Huret got it right with cones and ball-bearing pulleys, but they couldn't match Bullseye for shielding and low maintenance. If pulley bearings affect friction, what is the effect of pulley size on chain wear? It has to be huge. Of course, Rohloffs without tensioners have none of these concerns.

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We aren't racing teams, much as some would like to pretend...
Darn! There go my traffic-light-sprints-for-the-finish....  ;)

All the best,

Dan. (...being won over to the Rohloff's virtues a post at a time by Andre...)

Danneaux

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Dirk Hentschel has presented a nice chart showing an overlay comparison of Rohloff and derailleur efficiency. Though it is not an exact match for the Kyle/Berto study, it is close and makes the relationship clear. It appears about halfway down this page: http://www.magic-scooter.de/rohloff2.htm Unfortunately, I don't know its source or the research on which it is based.

Dirk's larger page in devoted to his velo-car: http://www.magic-scooter.de/index2.htm An interesting read for anyone interested in bicycles that are a bit more than that.

Best,

Dan.

pdamm

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Dan

I believe Dirk’s chart comes from this article on the Rohloff site.

http://www.rohloff.de/en/technology/speedhub/efficiency_measurement/index.html

I had previously harboured some doubts about the independence of the Rohloff article but after but after looking at the Kyle/Berto study the two seem to be consistent.  Thanks for posting the link to the Kyle/Bento study.

Rohloff have a couple of other articles talking about efficiency.  These are at

http://www.rohloff.de/en/technology/speedhub/mechanical_efficiency/index.html
http://www.rohloff.de/en/technology/efficiency/index.html


Peter
 

Danneaux

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Thanks, Peter! Very nice job.

Best,

Dan.