Author Topic: Have you ever taken a weapon on an adventure..  (Read 6070 times)

ianshearin

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Have you ever taken a weapon on an adventure..
« on: February 23, 2012, 07:25:01 PM »
I know this will be a difficult topic to discuss but I was wondering if anyone has felt the need to take some form of defence on a trek and if so what did they take.

I served 24 years in the military, my trade was as a Weapons Engineer so I am no stranger to firearms or the need to defend myself in hostile environments, I have never thought much about security after having left the service but I was wondering that I will be vulnerable travelling solo on the African continent, or in fact any continent really.

Im not talking about carrying guns or anything so silly as that, rather I am asking if anyone has had any thoughts on the subject.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2012, 07:26:33 PM by ianshearin »
In the end, it's not going to matter how many breaths you took, but how many moments took your breath away.
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JimK

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Re: Have you ever taken a weapon on an adventure..
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2012, 07:46:33 PM »
Bear spray or some such is often mentioned as a practical method of defense. I just read about a couple that got attacked by a pack of dogs in Turkey. I've thought about bear bells to scare wildlife away, e.g. deer. If a deer leapt out of the bushes when I was flying fast down a hill, that could be nasty. Or vultures having a meal and being too slow to escape. Bikes are so quiet. I find the evening twilight to be the busiest time for wildlife on the road.

For dealing with people... I can't imagine a situation where I would find a use for a weapon. For starters, I have zero experience with such things. I would end up injuring myself first!

jags

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Re: Have you ever taken a weapon on an adventure..
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2012, 08:50:33 PM »
don't think i would have what it takes to do a tour like yours ian.
my tours are a week here a week there even couple day trips but not a big adventure like yours.
as for weapons eh not likely, guess if i felt uncomfortable in a place i would move on.
mind you i often wished i had some kind of weapon attached to my handle bars so as i could blow up the  car that just try to run me off the road. 8)

ianshearin

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Re: Have you ever taken a weapon on an adventure..
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2012, 09:01:21 PM »
Just had word from a good friend who is a South African (We did Everest base camp trek a few years ago), he is interested in joining me.
He has a wild nature after a few Beers, so thats my Weapon solved, Ill take a bottle of whisky along.... ;D

Im quite excited at having company although there is a small part of me that wonders if it's a good idea, at least I will feel a lot safer than solo but also part of the challenge is to do it solo..

You do have what it takes to do it Jag, you just dont know it yet....
In the end, it's not going to matter how many breaths you took, but how many moments took your breath away.
'shing xiong'

Danneaux

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Re: Have you ever taken a weapon on an adventure..
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2012, 03:14:16 AM »
You bring up an interesting topic, Ian. As it happens, I never take a weapon with me except for bear spray if I will be in bear country, and it is clearly labeled for that purpose and well-known to residents and law enforcement in the areas where I carry it. I'd really pause before using it on a person, despite having already survived one random murder attempt. It's strong enough to cause eye damage.

Here in the Land O'Camo & Ammo (Northwestern US), friends and neighbors react with horror on learning I take no weapons with me. My 83 year-old neighbor was so concerned he offered a spare 9mm automatic from his collection before my last tour. Nearly all the outdoorsmen and hunters I know also pack self-defense weapons when enjoying the outdoors, but its not for me. People differ, but I really can't see any advantage to carrying a firearm or a knife intended for self-defense when cycle-touring, and would expect either to cause huge problems at border crossings and to likely work against me if I actually had to use them. William Sander's terrific 1982 book, Backcountry Bikepacking, covers the topic of self-defense while touring very nicely and in some detail. A number of used copies are available through a Google search (or http://www.amazon.com/Backcountry-bikepacking-William-Sanders/dp/0811722589 ). I've always enjoyed his writing on bicycles, and he gives a good summation:
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Unless the situation warrants the use of deadly force -- an attack by an armed person being the only example the law would recognize -- and you are prepared to go through with it, and know how, don't even think about it.

The solo cyclist is vulnerable, but a bicycle or tent offer little in the way of defensive positions. Speaking for myself, I'd rather take my chances with avoidance and depending on the intervention and kindness of passersby in the event of trouble.

In order, my concerns when touring are:
1) Distracted motorists (talking or texting on cell phones or watching television on in-car monitors while driving).
2) Drunk or drug-impaired drivers.
3) Bored, liquored-up high school kids riding three to a pickup truck and looking for trouble/entertainment on a Friday night or weekends.
4) Being surprised when I'm asleep.

Weapons wouldn't help with any of the first three, and careful attention to stealth camping addresses the last. My small Swiss Army knife is a visible and non-threatening bright yellow, clearly oriented for camping use. Theft or robbery might be a problem, but I really can't think of any possession worth my life to defend, and I can't envision a situation where I could reach for a properly stored gun quickly enough to help.

A friend and I had the daylights scared out of us one time in the middle of nowhere when a couple drunks amused themselves by pacing us in their truck, tossing their empty beer cans at us while we rode on the shoulder. It was mostly just annoying until one of them accidentally tossed a full can and became outraged at its loss. At that point, they took the shotgun off the window rack and aimed it out the window at us -- cocked --  and paced us for awhile. We were scared to death, but tried not to react and they eventually got bored and took off. A gun or knife wouldn't have helped there.

You're right, Ian...having a friend along solves a number of problems, but can create others. I hope it works out well for you. At least you'll have companionship!

Best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2012, 08:06:52 AM by Danneaux »

jags

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Re: Have you ever taken a weapon on an adventure..
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2012, 01:19:47 PM »
wow than Dan did you report those louts ,i know in the uk or ireland if someone pointed a shotgun  out of a moving truck every cop in the country would be after them pretty quick .
man theres some crazy pilgrims out there ;)

Pavel

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Re: Have you ever taken a weapon on an adventure..
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2012, 02:09:40 PM »
Here a weapon consisting of more than a three inch knife would be so much problem to carry that I would rather stay home and watch read than bother.
my friend has a concealed carry permit but with that he/we could not for example go to any state park and federal property so I'd miss the freedom on the road if I let him come along with me.  Frankly he is so paranoid of dogs and bears, without understanding their behavior I would be worried more of him going off half cocked rather that any danger on the road. Then if he were to shoot a dog because it wagged at him, I'd be forced to stab him ... and the trip would simply go downhill from there.

I lived in South Africa for two years long ago and do have to say that it is a dangerous country now, from what I've heard from old friends.  Most thefts people get the drop on you or there are more than one.  To pull out a gun, a knife, sword or assume a Ninja pose would often make it more likely that someone is going to get killed - not less.

Can you imagine shooting at a wildebeest with a 9mm? A smile and a fake wallet, and mud on your cheap looking thorn is the way to go. Besides without the presence of some danger, might as well stay home and read about someone else's adventure.  In africa it is corrupt officials first the drivers of lorries second and snakes third I'd worry about.

Relayer

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Re: Have you ever taken a weapon on an adventure..
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2012, 04:00:50 PM »
I used to have a full length pump (Zefal HPX4) under the top tube of my Galaxy, I never feared a dog with that thing handy   :D

Alas, sloping top tubes makes this nigh on impossible ... that's progress for you.

Relayer

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Re: Have you ever taken a weapon on an adventure..
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2012, 04:36:17 PM »
mind you i often wished i had some kind of weapon attached to my handle bars so as i could blow up the  car that just try to run me off the road. 8)

I seem to have a Klingon cloaking device which occasionally renders me invisible to other road users ... pity I don't have the Klingon disruptor to go with it!

Live long and prosper Jags   ;D 

Danneaux

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Re: Have you ever taken a weapon on an adventure..
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2012, 04:49:09 PM »
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Dan did you report those louts
Alas, no jags. This was in the pre-cell phone days, and the license plate was so mud-obscured, neither of us could get more than a letter and a digit. We just felt lucky to come out of it, and shook all the way home. Back in my uni days, and I still remember it vividly. The fellow I rode with does, too.
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...if he were to shoot a dog because it wagged at him, I'd be forced to stab him... and the trip would simply go downhill from there. ...
:D No worries, Pavel. Your sense of humor will get 'em laughing and on your side in a blink.
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I used to have a full length pump (Zefal HPX4)...I never feared a dog with that thing handy
Relayer, I was foolish enough to try that with a Silca Impero, and the thing shattered (predictably; styrene plastic barrel and handle). Rode a country lane where the road split a farmer's barn from his house, and his territorial pack of sheep dogs went after me. Boy, did the lead dog bite me; right through the sides of my heels. I could see the window curtains wiggle in the farm house and there was smoke coming from the chimney, but no one came out no matter how loud I yelled.
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pity I don't have the Klingon disruptor to go with it!
Relayer, a Klingon (cling-on) disruptor is a tandem team too fast for a wannabe drafting single.  ;D

Best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2012, 07:23:51 PM by Danneaux »

ianshearin

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Re: Have you ever taken a weapon on an adventure..
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2012, 05:25:25 PM »
Just reading a chapter from Stephen Lords Adventure Cycle-Touring handbook, I like the idea of a Fake Wallet so will defo be doing that.

I have had a look at all sorts of things these last few days from Knives to Airguns to Catapults, more and more my thoughts are that avoidance is the best defence.

The dog thing which seems to be prevalent is not a big deal really and something most of us have learnt to deal with, animals are a particular concern but thats down to knowledge and some commonsense.

It seems from reading that book and from other peoples experiences that built up areas and cities are the place where Human conflict is most likely and there are other ways to avoid Muggings/Attacks in those areas such as staying away from trouble spots, keeping near crowds etc etc, It seems that the areas I was most concerned about was the rural places with few people but they seem to be the areas where people are the most friendly.

Ian
In the end, it's not going to matter how many breaths you took, but how many moments took your breath away.
'shing xiong'

Danneaux

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Re: Have you ever taken a weapon on an adventure..
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2012, 05:42:28 PM »
I am the type who at one time sorta-kinda cleaned my bike on-tour, dampening a paper towel at a restroom to wipe-off any accumulated dust so the bike would "look nice". I stopped the practice some time ago, and now prefer to let the dust build-up on the frame while on-tour (cleaning it throroughly once I get home) so the whole rig looks more road-weary while I am out. The reasoning is it will also look less theft-attractive to the casual eye.

Same idea applied when I was commuting regularly. Petty thieves took to harvesting the bottles off parked bikes till I hit on the idea of leaving mine part-full. Stopped the problem cold. The popular reasoning at the time was to not share a drink to the end 'cos the last 1/3 or so in a bottle was likely to be backwash and  spittle. No one wanted to steal a bottle of spit, even if it did have a neat brand or commemorative logo. I'm hoping the same works with a dirty, carefully locked touring bike. So far, so good....  :-\

Best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2012, 07:25:41 PM by Danneaux »

stutho

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Re: Have you ever taken a weapon on an adventure..
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2012, 12:01:30 PM »
+1 for Zefal pumps.

I have brandished one at a berserk dog once. (What is it with dogs and Bicycle.)  Other than that I would NEVER even consider taking a weapon.  However I do always carry a load whistle (not that I have ever used it).     

ianshearin

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Re: Have you ever taken a weapon on an adventure..
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2012, 02:30:05 PM »
I am the type who at one time sorta-kinda cleaned my bike on-tour, dampening a paper towel at a restroom to wipe-off any accumulated dust so the bike would "look nice". I stopped the practice some time ago, and now prefer to let the dust build-up on the frame while on-tour (cleaning it throroughly once I get home) so the whole rig looks more road-weary while I am out. The reasoning is it will also look less theft-attractive to the casual eye.
Dan.

My ex wife pioneered that system....
In the end, it's not going to matter how many breaths you took, but how many moments took your breath away.
'shing xiong'

Vintagetourer

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Re: Have you ever taken a weapon on an adventure..
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2012, 09:30:17 PM »
Does a  Swiss Army knife count? I have found that the most used attachment in 33 years of touring was the corkscrew. It gets used less these days because of the demise of the cork and rise of the high tech screw caps.
In all seriousness, I can only say that a weapon on a cycle tour is completely at odds with the general philosophy of travelling by bicycle. Not to mention needless weight and volume. If there was space for something frivolous I'd carry a coffee plunger in preference to a weapon.