Suggestions needed: High-angle vid-cam mount

[Danneaux]

Hi All,

There are just not enough hours in the day.  Machined and then brazed a couple cable stops on my custom Folder this morning, did a 5-mile walk, rode the bike, did some work on the computer, then turned my thoughts to another project I'm working on...

I've been working for some time to develop a high-angle camera placement so I can capture "elevated video" of myself and Sherpa touring solo.  Some shots are just more interesting when there is a person in them to set a context.  Since I'm solo, I've got to capture myself.  So far, I haven't had much luck making what I need, and barely saved myself from myself this morning when I somehow managed to avoid affixing my Rowi camera clamp and camera to my Click-stand (an Expensive Bad Idea).  I also managed to restrain myself from doing the same with my Zefal HPX pump, clamp, and camera.

I'm as disappointed in my restraint as I am proud of my maturity. 

I am trying to accomplish something like the videos below, where the camera is mounted on a trekking pole and gives a high-angle perspective:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWtoMVtWpLc  <-- Start at the 3-minute mark.
...and...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TlmyrKpz_g&feature=related

Unfortunately, I don't have a carbon-fiber trekking pole or a place to store one. I think it would be possible to ride with one, perhaps with the lower end socketed in one of my steerer-mounted bottle cages.

Currently, I capture on-board HD video by clamping the Rowi to my Thorn Low-Loader Mark V and affixing the camera to that.  Gives a nice, sweeping view, but it may as well be taken from a car; there's no rider.  I've sometimes held the camera in my hand and aimed it back at me. Even while moving, it is not quite what I want to portray (see attached jpeg vid capture from the 720 video).  Besides, I'm riding with just one hand.  A GoPro Hero mounting kit might help, but I'm trying to hold my costs down; I got paid for an article today, but I think its destined for a take-along netbook.  I don't want to sell more stuff to afford this mount. The GoPro itself doesn't have the optics of my Leica lens, so I'd like to stay with what I have for that reason, too.

Ideas? Suggestions?  What I need should be rigid, lightweight, and stowable.  It needn't have a mount of its own so long as I can use my Rowi camera clamp with tilt-ball head.

Thanks in advance!

Best,

Dan.

[jimmer]

Dear Dan,

Can't something be fashioned to fit on the end of the click stand? How many jobs will it then be doing? Tarp supporting, clothes line hanging, bike standing, bear jousting...

Yours, James

[jags]

Dan i seen on bikeforum .net a while back a young canadian film maker touring canada (obviously) 
anyway he rigged up a boom at the front of the bike, i didnt see the end result but it must have worked because he made a full lenght film on his tour.
sorry buddy you will have to do your own searching i would have no  idea how to go about that task.

[JimK]

Maybe some kind of tent pole... ought to be lighter weight than a trekking pole. A challenge though will be the camera bouncing around. Maybe a pole coming up at like 45 degree elevation out to the front of the bike from a front dropout, and then two guy wires coming from the ends of the handlebars. The weight of the camera would tension the guy wires.

Here are some poles: http://www.fibraplex.com/tentpoles.htm

[Danneaux]

Jimmer, jags, and Jim K --

Thank you all for some really innovative suggestions and some leads for me to follow-up on; this is really outstandingly good, and I appreciate your efforts greatly.

I had to be out of town today, so I am playing a bit of catch-up; I'm going to sit down later this evening and work on drafting some possible solutions using each of your suggestions.

James -- Love the idea of making the Click-Stand useful for yet another purpose; it would be great to avoid taking yet more on the Heaviest Sherpa (mine!). If we can keep the bear-jousting capability...well, that's essential, don't you think?    In some preliminary trials, I found the Click-Stand's multiple segments meant an object on the end could rotate around instead of staying upright. Still, there must be a solution, so I'll look at it again with fresh eyes.

jags -- I like your approach as well!  Yes, what I am trying to do is to get the camera out of my hand and myself into the frame, so to speak, so the video I take will have more of a human element.  I am a little leery or trying to ride more on really bad roads (or worse, downhill at 73kph/45mph+) trying to balance the camera and brake with one hand.  It would probably make great YoouTube footage, but I really don't want to be star of crash footage!  A high-angle viewpoint would be terrific with a wide-angle lens so I could capture the bike and myself actually traversing the countryside, along the lines of the hiker in the video link I posted.  Thanks for the lead...I'll chase down that video. You've jogged my memory and I can almost remember seeing video like that now you mention it.  I'll start the search...

Jim -- You already knew carbon-fiber would appeal, didn't you?    I think you're onto something with a virtual tripod mount, say the pole and the two guylines as you suggested.  If it could be quickly demountable that would be even better.  Perhaps something could be rigged to a second Thorn Accessory T-bar mount serving as an upper anchor.  I have some Spectra line as well -- it is extremely light and tough, and it can be tensioned using micro-cordlocks snagging on knots in the line.

Boy, this is neat; the power of a Forum at work.  Thanks again, guys, and keep the suggestions coming; they're all good!

Best,

Dan.

[Danneaux]

Brilliant memory, jags! I think the video you remembered is here: http://vimeo.com/3451015

This fellow made a framework he mounted to the side of his bicycle and used that to film himself as he rode along.  I will need to watch it several more times so I can figure out what he did with it when he wasn't using it.  It is extremely innovative, but also quite a bit larger and heavier than what I have in mind.  It surely made the videos more interesting, which is what I am seeking.

Of course, I could solve my filming problems by riding with a partner instead of solo. Lacking that, I'd still like a suitable mount.

I'm now thinking I could quickly fab and braze an anchor that would attach under the 4 bolts on the present stem clamp and use that as an anchor for a telescoping pole mount, using Spectra guylines in a plan similar to what JimK proposed.

While looking for the video jags remembered, I came across this: http://travellingtwo.com/7354 , including an embedded link titled, "How to make a cycling expedition film if you are both the cameraman and the presenter": http://vimeo.com/groups/wereldfietser/videos/2436036 Some really thought-provoking ideas there.

Best,

Dan.

[jags]

hope it works out Dan  i'll view those videos later just off to get a few miles in, i need the training for my tour around my little part of the world come May  around 600 miles .

[jags]

say Dan are you any nearer a tour these days.i'm dead anxious to see your camping set up if its as good as your sherpa it will a sight to behold. do you when camping try and keep thing as light as possible and have you a fool proof way of packing your panniers.
myself i just use the rear panniere ortlieb bikepacker plus and use exped dry coloured drybags to keep things in order , not much of a weight penalty.my tent lives on top of the rear rack as does my three legged stool and crocks.
anyway dan dont forget to post a photo of your camping set up in your own time.
cheers
jags.

[Danneaux]

Hi jags,

Oh, how I wish I was on-tour right now! However, I have to wait for a bit due to the weather and work obligations.  As an independent contractor I can arrange my schedule to a degree, but have to make solid plans in advance if I'll be gone awhile. I'll post piccies as soon as I can get out and about for some overnighters. I've got some new equipment I'm dying to try out on an extended touring basis (one-man tent instead of my old Gore-Tex bivy, Click-Stand pressed into other service, etc).

I have some pics on the Forum of my old bivy setup here with the Miyata: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=1659.msg16984#msg16984
You can read all about how I pack my Ortliebs and see pictures and a list here: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=1659.msg16920#msg16920
Some of my homemade camping bits and bobs and my Pocket Kitchen are pictured here: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3850.0

As for ultralight...well, I like lightweight stuff, but it has to be durable over the long-term when I am away from replacements, so that often dictates it be a bit heavier. I have tried the cuben-fiber stuff and silnylon, and found each wanting in some way and somewhat fragile over long-term, extended use. My Ortliebs weigh more than my previous panniers, and my Sherpa is a good 8lbs/3.6kg heavier than the Miyata, but that's okay. Sherpa handles weight (mostly food and water) that made the Miayata's knees buckle but is necessary for my extended, solo, self-supported desert tours.  I still have the Centurion and old panniers for lighter tours if I wish.  My new tent weighs a half-kg more than the old bivy, but I can actually sit up at the waist in it, and have the option of using it as a mesh bug-tent if I don't pitch the fly.  That'll be nice on warm, buggy nights, so it is worth the extra 500g to me.  

I don't really have anyone to come get me if something goes wrong midway in a 400km day ride that includes mountainous fire roads beyond phone range, so I am beginning to put together a more comprehensive emergency-overnight kit so I can at least get some warm, reasonably dry sleep if I need to; that kit is ultralight.  I'll include my Pocket Kitchen (alu cups, meths stove and Reflectix freezer-bag cozy) and a few packets of dehydrated soup, some energy bars, an aluminized mylar emergency bag, and something to serve as a thermal break between me and the cold ground.

I'll get some pics up as soon as I can.

Wish you lived nearby so we could ride and chat at greater length about equipment, bikes, and touring.  I'd really like to see your Sherpa, too!

Best,

Dan.

[jags]

thanks for that dan have a look at those links later
if you fancy poping over to ireland in may you can tour with us you would be more than welcome buddy.

[Danneaux]

jags,

If only I could! There'd be fun-and-a-half to go 'round, that's for sure, and I really appreciate the invitation.  Can you tell us more about your upcoming tour plans?  Of course, we'll need pictures and a ride report on your return.

Best,

Dan.

[Danneaux]

Hi All,

I spent a bit of time today playing with various means of positioning the camera on Sherpa to see what might best meet my needs. I think a location ahead of the stem and with a pan-ball-tilt mount would do best. Ideal would be something that already used my Rowi clamp mount, which usually resides on the Thorn front rack for "tracking" shots (see attached video still from a recent trip). Now I have a better idea where I would like it, I can begin thinking about how to build it. A wide-angle lens gives some apparent vibration dampening, but I almost need something that is counter-weighted like a small SteadiCam. It is amazingly difficult to engineer a design that works as well as the outstretched human arm!

Ideas always welcome!

Best,

Dan.

[jags]

dan have you looked at a painters sanding pad with universal joint, basically a flat pad that you attach sand paper to but it has  a universal joint and a screw on attachment for extension pole , simple enough but it might just work.
great photo btw.

[Danneaux]

Brilliant idea, jags.  You do realize that within 90 minutes of your post, there is no longer an intact painter's pad in Danneaux's residence or garage? They've all given their lives in pursuit of the Cause. 

The hardware stores open in 8 more minutes.

Gettin' there...

Best,

Dan.

[jags]

  good excuse not to paint the house, hope it works out keep it simple as the man said.