Change needed??

[peter jenkins]

Hi Lewis,

You could try something a bit different.

http://www.moultonbicycles.co.uk/models/TSR27.html

These are available in a number of models and I'm pretty sure that someone is offering a Rohloff conversion as well.

http://www.foldingbikes.co.uk/moulton_tsr_rohloff_fbspec.htm

I have had a TSR30 for a couple of years and have found it to be very comfortable. The suspension is quite understated compared with MTB style suspension but definitely smooths out vibrations.

The optional separable frame (and cable splitters) can be useful too. I've taken mine on Eurostar and TGV in 2 bags as ordinary luggage.

If you can source one for a test ride, it's worth a go. I'd offer, but I'm in Australia.

Regards,

pj

[lewis noble]

Just thought I would bring people up to date.  I have sold my Raven Tour to someone who plans to use it on a round the world trip - good luck to him!!  And I will be delighted to see it used to nearer the limits of its capabilities.

I decided to buy a decent hardtail, and chose a Cube Acid.  I am very pleased with it - riding is less painful, and causes less grief the day after when I used to suffer quite a bit.  It handles quite differently from the Thorn - not worse or better, just differently.  I will have to get used to the derailleur gears, but I'm sure I will.  I swapped the knobbly MTB tyres for Schwalbe Hurricanes, which lowers the gearing a bit, and the range suits me fine - great tyres, by the way.  It is comfortable and I am enjoying riding it.

I must emphasise that there was and is nothing wrong with the Thorn products - and I still agree with many of the comments made and reservations expressed about disc brakes, sus forks etc for all except serious MTB riding.  And I still reckon that Thorn sells the best and most carefully thought out range of bikes.  But we all have to find what suits our changed circumstances.

Danneaux made an interesting comment about fitting things in with non-cycling life.  Another major hobby of mine is playing the trombone - quite stressful on hands and wrists because of angles, posture, movement etc. (some would say stressful on the ears as well . . .) and it was getting to the point where I could not do both in the same day.  But now I can, and the decent quality sus fork has certainly helped me on the rides I like to do.

So here goes - and good luck to Phil who has bought my Raven.

Lewis

[Danneaux]

Lewis,

Thanks so much for the follow-up to let us know how you came out.  I am so pleased and happy for you to hear the change of bicycles has been a positive in allowing you to continue riding and to pursue your other interests.  Bottom line for us all to take away is one has to get what works best for oneself...and that can change over time as our conditions and circumstances change (just like everything else in Life).

You were surely fair in describing your problem, the outcome, and why the new bicycle has been helpful, and that is all information I will tuck away in my head in the hope it will help someone else with a similar dilemma.  For now, I am delighted to hear you're out riding and with less pain and stress.  The Cube Acid is a lovely bike in its own right, and I'm sure you'll have many happy miles together.  Those Schwalbe Hurricanes are nice, aren't they!

All best wishes; stay safe out there,

Dan.

[Danneaux]

...and Phil...let us know as you embark on the round-the-world trip.  We want details!  Pics, too.

Best,

Dan.

[Danneaux]

Since road vibration hasn't gone away and remains a problem for many, here is an interesting study explaining and quantifying how and why vibrational stress due to rough surfaces can impair performance and even sometimes the health of the rider:
Original German version: http://lustaufzukunft.de/pivit/comfort/default.html
English translation: http://lustaufzukunft.de/pivit/comfort/vibration.html

To see study author Rainer Pivit's solution to the problem of vibrational stress:
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?act=url&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=de&tl=en&u=http://lustaufzukunft.de/pivit/fahrrad/my_bike_engl.html&usg=ALkJrhhCKlBymTUcAPO0Y2bS0CdrEVrkhg
The production version of his bicycle was refined and produced by Dutch custom builder Marten Gerritsen and his partner, Marinus Meijer at M-Gineering outside Groningen, NL. Pics at the above link.

Best,

Dan.

[John H]

Very much understand your concern.  I am a rheumatologist (USA, associated with the Arthritis Foundation) and also have arthritis at the base of my thumbs (typical for OA).  One of the advantages of the Rohloff is that its much easier on this condition than thumb activated gear shifters.  I am also wondering if we could fit a lever arm to the Rohloff rotor to make shifting easier so you do not use the joint at the base of the thumb at all.  Biking is actually ideal for people with arthritis because it avoids impact on joints.  We do need some engineering and design to make it easier for people with arthritis.  I will think more about the wrist pain issue.  Here you want to avoid positions that are associated with wrist extension.  The comfort bars and the Ergon ends are a great advance and maybe we can think of other "ease of use options".  Best of luck, John H

[Danneaux]

HI John,

Welcome aboard. I'm sorry you are having to deal with arthritis yourself, but I'm also guessing that personal experience -- coupled with your professional expertise -- could benefit those cyclists on the Forum with arthritis. I'm fortunate to have so far escaped it in my hands, but see the effect in my longtime cyclist father, who just sailed past his 94th birthday and has been dealing with the same issues as yourself.

As I replied to OP Lewis earlier in this thread, riding at some level is better than not riding at all, and whatever means it takes to accomplish that is very worthwhile. Cycling is of such great benefit in terms of overall exercise -- and fun, too -- it would be shame to lose out due to any issue like arthritis that could be accommodated in some possible way. I looked at this matter for a friend in a similar situation, and am in the process of making a lever attachment to eliminate the grip needed to rotate his SRAM Grip-Shift twist shifter. Something similar could likely be adapted to the Rohloff shifter. What I have in mind looks a bit like the doorknob adapters marketed to those with arthritic hands...the kind of thing that clamps over a round knob, and requires only downward or upward pressure, eased by the greater moment arm and leverage of the adapter -- no grip required. I  have already made another adaptation for a friend who had no problems with her thumbs, but had trouble wrapping her other fingers around the grips. Using a composite molding compound, I made little platforms she could simply lean on and padded them to better distribute weight across her palms, with the brake lever's blade sitting above and just ahead of the handgrip so she can also lean on it to activate the brakes (poor grip strength in her fingers won't allow a standard configuration). At the speeds she rides, weight transfer under braking won't be a problem, and this puts her back in the saddle again.

John...might it be possible for those dealing with arthritis and cycling to occasionally query you on the Forum for suggestions?

Best,

Dan.

[John H]

Dan
I would be happy to respond.  I can not provide direct medical advice for legal reasons but can address questions of a general nature.  Look forward to hearing from you all.

John

[Pavel]

Hi Lewis,

You could try something a bit different.

http://www.moultonbicycles.co.uk/models/TSR27.html

These are available in a number of models and I'm pretty sure that someone is offering a Rohloff conversion as well.

http://www.foldingbikes.co.uk/moulton_tsr_rohloff_fbspec.htm

I have had a TSR30 for a couple of years and have found it to be very comfortable. The suspension is quite understated compared with MTB style suspension but definitely smooths out vibrations.

The optional separable frame (and cable splitters) can be useful too. I've taken mine on Eurostar and TGV in 2 bags as ordinary luggage.

If you can source one for a test ride, it's worth a go. I'd offer, but I'm in Australia.

Regards,

pj

Did someone mention a Rohloff Moulton?
I like the bike but it is very, very responsive and thus not my idea of a Touring bike, but should be a good compliment to my upcoming Thorn.

[Pavel]

oh ... and the other thing to add is that the chain adjustment is simply terrible as the bike is not designed for a Rohloff.  I have to say that the way Thorn does it is so well thought out and the use of the cam adjustment was a major factor in my decision to finally get the thorn - the bike I should have gotten in the first place.

The Moulton I should say is a great one of a kind bike - but simply not really meant for a Rohloff.  I'm actually thinking of having the hub and dyno built into 26" wheels and move it over to a second Thorn frame, perhaps a small size sterling which my daughter can use when I can afford it.  That does seem a bit extravagant, bordering on insane though.

[Danneaux]

John, you generously wrote...

I can not provide direct medical advice for legal reasons but can address questions of a general nature.

Outstanding! This has the potential to make cycling life so much easier for those experiencing difficulties of this sort; thank you!

Pavel, you mentioned...

the chain adjustment is simply terrible as the bike is not designed for a Rohloff.

By any chance, have you investigated the Phil Wood "Philcentric" retrofit eccentric for conventional bottom brackets? It does require use of an external-bearing BB, but might give you must enough chain take-up to make life a bit easier, though you might still need a half-link. See: http://www.philwood.com/products/bbpages/philcentric.php

Now you've done it, reigniting my dormant desire -- no, lust! -- for a space-frame Moulton. I wanted an AM7 achingly badly when it first came out. I finally declined due to the difficulty in finding tires at the (largely pre-Internet, pre-ecommerce) time. I then made a 5-hour drive to Seattle-area Angle Lake Cyclery to test-ride a bright yellow Land Rover-edition Moulton outfitted for trail use with easily-found BMX tires, but the price nearly stopped my heart. Solution was to design and braze-up my own version, based on 20"/406mm wheels; it is nearly done 'cept for a cable stop or two. Still have a soft spot for space-frame Moultons, and yours is a fantastic example. You've done well to manage the chain slack with the swimgarm suspension and no tensioner, Pavel; this is so nicely executed as to look like a factory option, annnnnnd...it appears you've maintained the separability through the use of cable connectors. A really outstanding conversion of an unusual kind.

'Glad for the pics.

Best,

Dan.

[John H]

Dan,
Nothing would please me more than to contribute to cycling in some manner.  Looking forward to pitching in.  I am a long time bike commuter but just getting involved with long distance trips.  I just purchased a Thorn Nomad and could not be more pleased.

John H

[Danneaux]

Looking forward to pitching in.

Ideal, John; thanks! You've found the one bike-related forum on the 'Net consistently characterized by a friendly, supportive, and helpful membership. Please let us know if we can help you as well. Each of us goes about things in our own way, and the sharing is a great way to learn from each other.

So glad you have the new Nomad! No matter if it's a kid at Christmas or an adult with a dream bike, nothing matches the thrill of a new bicycle, or the satisfaction of an old one that has served well. Looking forward to seeing photos of it in the gallery, and hearing how it serves you. There's no bad rides, be it a daily commute or a ride 'round the world.

Ride safe, ride happy.

All best regards,

Dan.

[lewis noble]

Maybe time to re-activate this thread!!  To summarise, I was having difficulty back in 2011 with my RT because I found I began to need a more upright posture, and had re-configured the Raven as far as it would go. 

I sold it to a guy who has ridden it to Thailand!!  (Phil's Bike Tours) so I am delighted it is getting some use.

I bought a Cube Acid (26" wheel), which suited me pretty well - until it was stolen off the back of my camper van 8 weeks ago.

I have been looking for a replacement, I was quite keen on the Cube range, but have had major problems in getting the model / size I want - eventually cancelled order out out of frustration of waiting 7 weeks for a bike supposedly in stock.  I was looking at a hybrid, though I had some reservations about high gearing and suitability for rough surfaces - although a fair bit of my riding is in the city, the roads are dreadful here and hybrid riders always look to me as though they are going pretty gingerly around potholes . . .

Then I saw the blue Ripio built up on the SJSC website, at a price within my budget!!  So I am going to have a look at it soon, and assuming the sizing is right - and I think it will be - I'll be mobile and on a Thorn again.  My ideal would probably be a Sherpa, but I cannot run to that cost I regret.

What strikes me is that it is an 'easy to sort out' bike, basic but solid kit.  Plenty of room to adjust bar height etc. 

Some advice please -

1) The Marathon tyres fitted are EC XR - I think they are full on expedition tyres? Duremes probably better for my trail and (potholed) road style of riding

2) I will miss the instant response of good disc brakes in wet weather, but the rim brakes fitted look to be good ones.  Someone here has recommended a pad that reduces pad / rim wear, and has good wet weather bite - is it Kool Stop?  I could in future upgrade to a different fork and disc front brake if I find it necessary.

3) I doubt if it would have the load capacity of a Sherpa, for reasons of geometry quite apart from anything else, but enough for me I think.  Should be OK for a child seat??  Started this year with no grandchildren, will have 2 by November . . . .

4)  Some manufacturers (including Cube) make a big selling point of a detachable / replaceable gear hanger; which can be replaced rather than damaging the frame I guess.  What happens on Thorn frames if you take a tumble? I guess that gear gets bent and the frame is hopefully unbent?

Any observations welcome.

So, here's to my trip down the motorways to Bridgewater . . . .

Lewis

[Danneaux]

Hi Lewis!

Good to hear from you again, but oh so very sorry to hear the Cube has been taken! Dratted thieves!

As to your questions...

Yes, it sounds as if the Ripio might well do for your needs.

Some advice please -

1) The Marathon tyres fitted are EC XR - I think they are full on expedition tyres? Duremes probably better for my trail and (potholed) road style of riding

Yes, they are very heavy-duty tires intended for expedition-worthy use. Duremes might well be better as a lighter weight all-'rounder if they are still available to you (they have been recently discontinued). Otherwise, the XRs would certainly be durable and capable, but at the cost of some speed and liveliness.

2) I will miss the instant response of good disc brakes in wet weather, but the rim brakes fitted look to be good ones.  Someone here has recommended a pad that reduces pad / rim wear, and has good wet weather bite - is it Kool Stop?  I could in future upgrade to a different fork and disc front brake if I find it necessary.

Kool-Stop *salmon*-colored pads are the ones you want. Superb braking in wet and dry in my experience, and very "rim-friendly". And yes, you could always go with a disc and compatible fork for it up-front if desired.

3) I doubt if it would have the load capacity of a Sherpa, for reasons of geometry quite apart from anything else, but enough for me I think.  Should be OK for a child seat??

According to the Ripio brochure ( http://web.archive.org/web/20110902150659/http://www.sjscycles.com/thornpdf/ThornRipioBroHi-Res.pdf )...

The Ripio will carry 20kg at the rear...but will cope with 30kg whenever necessary.

Based on this, I would say it depends on the weight of the child, the carrier, and the rack; all add toward those cargo totals.

4)  Some manufacturers (including Cube) make a big selling point of a detachable / replaceable gear hanger; which can be replaced rather than damaging the frame I guess.  What happens on Thorn frames if you take a tumble? I guess that gear gets bent and the frame is hopefully unbent?

Thorn's derailleur hangers are not replaceable, but are really sturdy pieces. I have read a few online accounts where they were bent accidentally (say, in-transit on a carrier) and were easily made right by bending back with a large wrench. I was mightily impressed with the hanger on my Sherpa, which seems to be the same piece used on the Ripio. Still, I always try to fall *away* from the derailleur (to the left, though I don't often have the choice at such times!), and never lean the bike on the derailleur side.

I do hope this will help. It is nice to think you might well be back on a Thorn soon!

All the best,

Dan.