New Phil Wood hub casing for Rohloff

[onmybike]

Available (eventually) in multiple drillings: http://philwoodco.wordpress.com/2011/02/16/36-hole-phil-wood-hub-shell-for-rohloff-hub/

[stutho]

VERY interesting - thanks for sharing this!

StuTho

[ThousandYardStare]

I'm clueless and curious: Why would you want to change the Rohloff shell?

[Andre Jute]

I'm clueless and curious: Why would you want to change the Rohlhoff shell?

Rohloff supplies their hubs only in 32 drillings. Some people think 32 spokes aren't enough for a touring wheel.

Whether you need a Phil case to get more drillings is another matter. See next post about Chalo Colina's Rohloff wheel with 48 spokes.

Hobbes

[Andre Jute]

Here's Chalo's 48 spoke Rohloff wheel on his custom bike by David Bohm of Bohemian/

http://img140.exs.cx/img140/328/bohmdriv6fo.jpg

And here is his description:

******

At 350+ pounds, I felt that I needed something stronger than *any*
32-spoke wheel. (Rohloff claim that their hub makes a wheel that is as
strong as a 48-spoke rear wheel because it is dishless.  I don't know
what measure of wheel strength they use to justify that claim.  I
wanted 48 spokes anyway.)

So I set about adding some extra holes to the hub shell-- 8 extra on
the left and 16 extra on the right-- and laced up a 48-spoke wheel in a
crow's foot pattern:

http://img140.exs.cx/img140/328/bohmdriv6fo.jpg

That's 32 cross-2 spokes plus 16 radial ones, attached to a 750g Snow
Cat rim.

I used a 2.5 axis CNC mill to drill the hole pattern.  I made a special
fixture plate to securely hold the opposite flange without marring it.
Thus I did not have to disassemble the hub for the machining operation.


I filled the 8 unused spoke holes with tiny screws, to make it easier
to keep track of the lacing pattern.  The spokes worked out to be
unusal sizes-- 240mm and 220mm long-- so I had to have them cut to
order.

Drilling into a hub that expensive was an uneasy operation, but it all
went according to plan.  I am confident that my hole pattern is held to
tighter tolerances than the original drilling. 

Chalo Colina

*******

HTH

Hobbes

[Paulson]

Now that's interesting.  I was in correspondence with Robin Thorn recently, and my recently re-rimmed back rohloff wheel came into the discussion.  He expressed the view that you should always lace the spokes exactly as they were before, whereas mine had been built with the new spokes at 90 degree angles to the originals - and apparently this is seen by Thorn as a possible stress factor on the flanges.  Now my point is that if simply lacing the existing flange holes a different way is a stress raiser, what the heck is drilling a heap of new holes going to do?  I guess he can kiss goodbye to his warranty, but surely hub flange failure is now a possibility?  There was a thread either on here or at YACF by a chap who has a Thorn tandem where he and some others reported flange cracking.

TYS - I saw the new hub casing as a device primarily for tandem riders who want more spokes.

[ThousandYardStare]

Thanks for enlightening me- I hadn't realised it only comes in a 32 hole version.

Poor tandem owners...just when they think the Rohloff set-up's expensive enough already, they need to consider adding some Phil Wood engineering into the equation! Seems like quite an oversight to me if they really aren't up to tandem use. I wonder how many people have actually had problems...

[stutho]

A few years back (circ 2007) there WAS a 48 hole version of the Rohloff speedhub. It was sold exclusively through SJSC for use on their  tandem's.  I don't know when (or why) this version has been removed from sale, but I don't see it now.  It too was laced crows foot.  

Best Regards

Stuart    

[Andre Jute]

Thanks for enlightening me- I hadn't realised it only comes in a 32 hole version.

Poor tandem owners...just when they think the Rohloff set-up's expensive enough already, they need to consider adding some Phil Wood engineering into the equation! Seems like quite an oversight to me if they really aren't up to tandem use. I wonder how many people have actually had problems...

I not so sure there were lots of cracked Rohloff flanges, or the multi-hole version Stuart refers to would've been kept in production.

My own Rohloff hub is laced with butt-ugly Sapim spokes specially designed with the most favourable angle at the elbow and head for lacing Rohloff hubs. The wheel was designed and built for Utopia, who build bikes for hefty Cherman sitzplatzes to tour around the world, rough stuff and all, and the Sapim spokes was just one detail. They're available to everyone, as far as I know.

To Paulson: Chalo is a boss machinist, a designer of ultra-strength bicycle parts, etc, etc, exactly the guy you want to build your moon-lander when you get only one chance. He's bound to build the jig right, to drill the flange right, despite his own concerns, and so it has proved under his 350-400 pounds. The problem is, Chalo probably won't do it for you, because the set-up cost of doing it again would be ginormous.

There is a guy in the States who offers for a fee to drill the flange of the Rohloff. I seem to remember photos of his jig. Last time I looked, a couple of years ago, he had no reports of cracked flanges. I assume, as you do, that his customers are tandem riders.

The most interesting thing is that Phil thinks there are enough tandem riders with very deep pockets to cover the development cost of a brand new shell for a technology they don't own. Think about it: that's a very exposed position if Herr Rohloff suddenly changes his design (and he's had a go design ready for years, frequently reported here with launch dates and then never seen for whatever reason).

André Jute

[MilitantGraham]

I wonder why they stuck with the original size bearings instead of taking the opportunity to upgrade a known weak point ?

[Danneaux]

Aaron's Bike Repair, Inc. in Seattle Washington will redrill Rohloff flanges.  

Fees quoted are as follows:

You may send us your hub to be drilled for $50 (include a check in the box; includes labor, shipping, handling and tax).
Hub must be alone, no spokes or rim.
Bring it in, in person and the labor is only $25.

Home page here: http://www.rideyourbike.com/index.shtml
48-spoke Rohloff pics, details here: http://www.rideyourbike.com/48spokerohloff.html
48-spoke Rohloff crowsfoot lacing instructions here: http://www.rideyourbike.com/lace48rohloff.html

They picture Chalo's wheel and say he was "very instrumental" in helping them do this.

The extra photos helped me better visualize the process, though it doesn't appear these folks are using a jig to drill. Perhaps they use a jig to mark and centerpunch the holes? The new spoke holes don't appear to be countersunk.

Chalo's drilling thread and his notes on spacing can be picked up here: http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Rec/rec.bicycles.tech/2007-12/msg00883.html

Dutch firm Vittorio take a different approach, using screws to affix new flanges external to Rohloff's originals:
http://www.vittorio.nl/rohloffnaaf
Google-translated to English http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=nl&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vittorio.nl%2Frohloffnaaf&act=url

Best,

Dan.

[Andre Jute]

Aaron's Bike Repair, Inc. in Seattle Washington will redrill Rohloff flanges.  

Fees quoted are as follows:
Home page here: http://www.rideyourbike.com/index.shtml
48-spoke Rohloff pics, details here: http://www.rideyourbike.com/48spokerohloff.html
48-spoke Rohloff crowsfoot lacing instructions here: http://www.rideyourbike.com/lace48rohloff.html

They picture Chalo's wheel and say he was "very instrumental" in helping them do this.

The extra photos helped me better visualize the process, though it doesn't appear these folks are using a jig to drill. Perhaps they use a jig to mark and centerpunch the holes? The new spoke holes don't appear to be countersunk.

Chalo's drilling thread and his notes on spacing can be picked up here: http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Rec/rec.bicycles.tech/2007-12/msg00883.html

Chalo was some manner of machine designer and prototype machinist at Boeing at the time, so most likely he showed Aaron's in Seattle how to do it. I imagine his own work would be rather more refined. At present Chalo lives in Austin, Texas.

Andre Jute

[reb1]

    The Rohloff hub is an outstanding product. They do farm out there hub shell. The large diameter of the hub and the width of it combine to add more stress to the spokes and hub flange. Thorn has drilled out rims to resolve this problem. There have been some broken hub flanges. More drillings will reduce the over all spoke tension and spread the load over a larger area of the hub flange. The lateral strength of the wheel is also increased. Rohloff now offers the hub in 36 hole also. The Phil looks like they have reduced the flange width some. This should decrease the stress on the flange some. I have Phil conventional hubs on my Tandem and commuter bike and also on my bicycle cart. There products are high quality and properly engineered. There are some tandem crews who brake spokes with the Rohloff hub and can benefit from products of this kind. The only reason I am even considering a Thorn with a Rohloff hub is the availability of 36 or more spokes in the flange. I emailed Thorn and they told me I could purchase a 36 holed Rohloff built in a wheel.

[NZPeterG]

Still waiting on Phil Wood and the new hub shell?

Pete . . . .