Help with choosing Raven or RST

[6527richardm]

I  am in the process of deciding which Raven to buy and am heading towards the Raven Tour.  I will use it for long day rides and for lightish weight touring but may progress to longer tours.
Am I right in the bike choice?
If I am which upgrades would you recommend currently looking at XT hub, Brooks saddle, upgraded tyres and Ergon grips with bar ends.
Is there a need to change the chain set to Deore?
I currently ride amongst others a Galaxy and have not run out of gears on it and think I will need either a 42 or 44 chainring any thought welcome.
Finally any views on needing the dynamo hub and if so what are the benefits.
Thanks

[Bearbait]

I have been going through the same agonizing process.  We have similar goals for riding, although I will probably be doing a little more off-road on hard packed trails.  I have chosen the RST because I want as light a bike as possible for the majority of my riding.   I think the RST will be more responsive.  I will upgrade rims, tires, and chain.

If I do occasionally do heavy touring on it, I'll get a trailer..

[Bearbait]

Sorry - I had to ride off in mid-thought.  I would also get the black XT hub.  At the cost this is a bike you'll want for a long time.  I wouldn't bother with the dynamo hub.  It would be nice if you are in the middle of nowhere.  From what I've read, the light isn't easily detachable.  If you do rig something, then it is still fairly large to carry about.  Plus, I find I often use my bike light as a flashlight.  If you leave it on, then it's just something else for the pond scum to steal.

[6527richardm]

I have been coming to the same conclusion about the dynamo hub and do not think I will include this in the purchase. The problem with the XT hub s that you can not get it in black but I do not think that Will bother me too much.

Main problem is still whether to go for the Tour  or the sport version I guess the best way will be to try and ride both but I already have a road bike so will be using the Raven mainly for touring and slower day rides when I want more comfort.

The other dilemma is the size of the chainring everything I look at seems to point me to the 38 but my instincts tell me it will be undergeared!

[julk]

If you can get to SJS and try one or two you will be able to choose what suits you.

Failing that, SJS are very good at changing whatever is not right for you and if all else fails the Rohloff bikes come with a 100 day satisfaction or return warranty.

Have fun choosing and some great rides after.

[Paulson]

I have been coming to the same conclusion about the dynamo hub and do not think I will include this in the purchase. The problem with the XT hub s that you can not get it in black but I do not think that Will bother me too much.

Main problem is still whether to go for the Tour  or the sport version I guess the best way will be to try and ride both but I already have a road bike so will be using the Raven mainly for touring and slower day rides when I want more comfort.

The other dilemma is the size of the chainring everything I look at seems to point me to the 38 but my instincts tell me it will be undergeared!

I'd go for the RST every time!  Unless you intend to do serious touring, you'll pay a weight penalty and the rst is such a lovely, rideable bike.

38T chainring? Unless you live in the alps, I reckon you'll be seriously undergeared!  I found a 42T ring to be way under what I wanted.  But then again, I live in East Anglia!!!!!

[brummie]

Tyre size & load carrying capability may help decide one way or another - If you favour getting off the beaten track / off road & favour tyres greater than 1.75" the Raven Tour would be more logical - especially if wanting to have greater load carrying potential. I have a RST which is great for lightweight touring, (careful) rough stuff & the daily commute..

[6527richardm]

Thanks for the advice I agree about the 38 and think I will go for 44 or even 46.

I understand what you mean about the weight difference but I am torn between that and being able to put on the larger tyres (just in case I need them) and from what I understand the additional comfort of the Tour.

Does anyone happen to know the weight difference between the Tour and the Sport in the basic build?

[PH]

Does anyone happen to know the weight difference between the Tour and the Sport in the basic build?

No, but it will be tiny, half a bottle of water, I doubt any more.
It's not just weight that makes a bike faster, position has the largest affect, aided by geometry.  The differences on paper can look minor and subtle, yet make a big difference in the ride.
The Raven tour is a lovely bike for lovely rides, going out and enjoying the scenery.  You can do incredible distances on it in extreme comfort, you can ride fast, it's just a lot harder than on a bike that's designed for that. If I didn't need the load capacity I'd get the RST, though the best thing is to gt a ride on both.
I wouldn't consider a bike without a dynamo and fitted lights anymore than I'd consider a car without.  A bike to me has to be an ever ready form of transport and it's only with a dynamo this becomes reality.  Plenty of good bolt on LED lights, they're not really a target for thieves, they wouldn't know what to do with them.  And if you tour you can charge all sorts of stuff from the hub during the day. 

[Bowland Rider]

No, but it will be tiny, half a bottle of water, I doubt any more.
It's not just weight that makes a bike faster, position has the largest affect, aided by geometry.  The differences on paper can look minor and subtle, yet make a big difference in the ride.

So can the Raven Tour be just as quick as the Sport if skinny tyres are put on it?  If there's next to no weight difference, why is the RST a quicker bike?

[sg37409]

Thats my RST with the drop-bars in the gallery section. Its still very new to me. The weight of it as pictured, bag, small tool kit & pedals, ~15.4 kg. Its a lovely bike to ride, pretty much exactly what I wanted, just slower than expected. The main diff between RT & RST is the frameset. The RST is a nice 853 conical tubing, the RT is a heavier frame. I'd expect the weight diff to be very slight and the RT to feel less sprightly/lively.

The following is my opinion of the RST: much of it would be applicable to an RT also.
The RST is that its a lovely slow bike to ride. I have other derailler bikes, a titanium and a thorn audax: These are both a lot faster even though at 13 kg (also has dynohub) the audax is not much lighter. The speed diff to my derailler bikes was a bit of a shock to me. I am hoping a fair bit of this is the newness of the rohloff, although these will always be a bit draggy compared to deraillers. Put into context, on my local ~50 miler, I could jog round very comfortably in approx 3:15, on the RST, I'm 15-20 mins slower and it feels a lot harder. I dont know if this is helpful: I spec'd 40*16 gearing to give my my nice gear 11. I find that spot on and am riding in gear 10 & 11 mostly.  Its very hard work to try to ride fast compared to my other bikes, as richardm noted.  It'll carry all I will ever need: I'd happily load > the conservative "recommended limits".

I am very glad I went for the RST, despite the price. Its a lovely ride. Any slower and I'd start to get p1ssed off with it, or change my mindset which I dont seem able to do !

I really like the carbide rims. I dont like the brakeset behind the fork. In fact I think its the worst point on the bike. Light braking causes juddering of the forks just now, I hope it bed in more. I cannot think why you'd opt for a shimano chainset over the thorn. I've only ridden about 500 km on it so far, so all of the above are very much first impressions.

[6527richardm]

Thanks again for all the advice I am going to go to Somerset and try both to see what I think, my initial leaning was towards the tout but now I am not so sure, it is unlikely that I will need to carry large amounts it was more that as I expect to be doing 80 to a 100 Miles a day that I thought the tour may be more comfortable for the longer distances.

Does anyone have views on the chainring size?

[Paulson]

Does anyone have views on the chainring size?

This really depends on what kind of terrain you intend to ride on.  My RST came from the original owner with a 42T ring and 16t sprocket, and while I'm sure this is great for slow, steady riding in the pennines, it was almost unusable in East Anglia where the roads are flatter.  You need to consider your gear 11 which is the 'direct rive' gear, as if this is too under or over-geared then your riding will not be comfortable.

I graduated to a 46t, and now have a 48t which I bought secondhand off the forum.  This is probably too high for most peoples' tastes, but suits me.  I like to ride my RST as fast as possible!

I would read what Sheldon Brown has to say about gearing with the Rohloff, as it may be helpful as it has a gearing chart:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/rohloff-impressions.html

[Bearbait]

Good luck with your choice.  I'd be interested in hearing of your experience as I won't have the luxury of trying out the bikes.

[PH]

So can the Raven Tour be just as quick as the Sport if skinny tyres are put on it?  If there's next to no weight difference, why is the RST a quicker bike?

I don't know the answer to that, well not one I could demonstrate.
I can offer an opinion
When I get on a bike, any bike, the way it feels, position, responsiveness, handling. comfort, all contribute to the way I ride it.  As an example - I used to commute 14 miles each way, on the way home there's a long drag of a hill, on the Raven I'd sit back and spin up it, on the Audax bike I'd go up in a higher gear with a lot more effort.  I could have spun up on the Audax bike, it has low enough gears, I could have put more effort in on the Raven, I don't know why I rode these bikes differently, that's just what felt right.