Author Topic: Does this novel sprocket whip cut the mustard?  (Read 5689 times)

Andre Jute

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Does this novel sprocket whip cut the mustard?
« on: October 03, 2009, 07:08:56 am »
Suggestively described as a "Pedros Vice Whip" at
 http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=31344
it is a dedicated vise grip for gripping sprockets.

I'm collecting tools and materials for the first annual service of my Rohloff hub and the bike, and am wondering if this tool will help me escape the problems others have suffered, as described in the archives. Even saving a set of skinned knuckles might be worth the price, if the tool actually gets the Rohloff off.

Hobbes

julk

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Re: Does this novel sprocket whip cut the mustard?
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2009, 12:25:07 am »
Annual service for Rohloff -
Change oil, if necessary clean and possibly adjust chain...

Andre Jute

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Re: Does this novel sprocket whip cut the mustard?
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2009, 01:51:01 am »
Annual service for Rohloff -
Change oil, if necessary clean and possibly adjust chain...

I know, thanks. But my sprocket, chainwheel and chain are invisible inside Utopia's Country chaincase, which is a major operation to remove, so I don't know what condition I'll find them in when I open it up. So I'm collecting spares and tools in case the sprocket has to be reversed or replaced. I want to take the sprocket off anyway to check the condition of the seal, as after more than a thousand miles the pedals still turn when wheeling the bike.

So the question stands:

Suggestively described as a "Pedros Vice Whip" at
 http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=31344
it is a dedicated vise grip for gripping sprockets.

I'm wondering if this tool will help me escape the problems others have suffered when removing the sprocket, as described in the archives. Even saving a set of skinned knuckles might be worth the price, if the tool actually gets the Rohloff sprocket off.

Hobbes

Cake

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Re: Does this novel sprocket whip cut the mustard?
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2009, 08:53:36 am »
Mmmm modified mole grips - i would also be interested to here from people who have used them.

Or is anybody willing to be a £29 pound guinea pig?!

Good idea in principle - could the amount of leverage available be an issue for some?

julk

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Re: Does this novel sprocket whip cut the mustard?
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2009, 10:39:09 am »
Hobbes,
Sorry, I cannot answer the question on the Pedros tool.

Your full chaincase should have kept the chain, chainring and sprocket in pristine condition, I am jealous!

My pedals still turn on wheeling the bike after 4k miles, why would I be checking the seals, surely this should be driven by experiencing abnormal or visible oil loss?

A Park Tools SR2 chainwhip and a pair of leather gardening gloves are what I will use if I undertake a sprocket removal or reversal.
Julian

expr

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Re: Does this novel sprocket whip cut the mustard?
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2009, 09:52:06 pm »
Hello Hobbes,

I don't think that this is going to help you at all. The main problem that people seem to suffer from when changing the sprocket is the leveredge or sheer poor quality of the chain whip their using. The one fundamental item of help in this operation is having a vice of which you can lock the wheel into using the rohloff specific tool, thereafter you need a good quality (park tools) chain whip which is up to the job and this will allmost certainly result in a hassle free service.

The issue you have with the crank pedals turning is not to be associated with a defective seal, as suggested the presence of oil will define a possible seal issue.


Buy a park tools chain whip and the use of a fixed vice and this will help what can be sometimes a troublesome operation for some people, and cause damage / injury in the mean time.

Dave.

Andre Jute

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Re: Does this novel sprocket whip cut the mustard?
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2009, 03:10:24 am »
Or is anybody willing to be a £29 pound guinea pig?!

I have no problem spending 29 quid or its euro equivalent on a necessary tool, but I'd hate to waste the money on a tool that doesn't do the job and has no other use. I see now, on a further search on the net, that the purpose of the Pedros vise whip can be paraphrased as holding derailleur sprockets steady while undoing the locking with another tool. Whereas, if I understand the Rohloff process correctly, the purpose of the chain whip/vise whip is to unwind the sprocket while another spanner holds the gubbins steady. (The Rohloff process is the same as one does with the Shimano IGH sprocket.)

Good idea in principle - could the amount of leverage available be an issue for some?

Yes, I wondered what sort of a pipe one could fit over the back end of a molegrip for extra leverage. But see my note above about the Pedros vise whip being intended merely to be the steadying tool rather than to perform the rotation.

***

So as not to be a guinea-pig in Senor Pedro's lab, I think I'll just take the experienced advice here and buy a Park chain whip to replace the one (probably from the same place that makes Lifu chain whips, already found inadequate by a poster in the main sprocket thread) that came in my Velomann toolkit.

I already have a 24mm spanner. I also have a substantial machine vise, which I can attach to a Workman stand; if that fails, I can go use the vise at my LBS, who hails from the blacksmith era of bicycle mechanics.

All this is probably, as Julian says, a bit premature, if, as you all seem to believe, I'm likely to find on removing the chaincase that the sprocket is in good nick. However, I have two other full chaincases on other bikes (different sorts of chaincases, not Utopia Country as on my Rohloff-equipped bike) and on both of them the Shimano sprockets were pretty worn after 2k miles or so, and the chains were definitely kaput; this isn't a service problem as those chains were respectively oiled or white waxed according to use, and were used only on clean roads, an altogether very disappointing performance for a hub gear drivetrain inside a fully enclosing chaincase. So I'm not counting any chickens until they hatch; it might be my riding style or weight causing the excessive wear in the Shimano HGB setups, in which case my Rohloff sprocket won't last as long as yours appear to do. Better prepared than surprised, followed by days of idleness while I wait for parts to arrive.

***

I must say though that I feel better about the process now that I've found a support group. On hand of my experience with the Shimano sprockets, I was anticipating viewing the Rohloff sprocket with some trepidation, now much lessened.

Thanks to all who helped out.

Hobbes



julk

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Re: Does this novel sprocket whip cut the mustard?
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2009, 09:44:36 am »
Hobbes,
Please post what condition you find your transmission in when you take the chain case off.
We are all eager to hear, because an effective chain case which fits over a Rohloff set up has been a 'holy grail' which is still unresolved.

I have to say that I find my Rohloff bike to be great to ride, but a disappointment to maintain - it needs so little!
Apart from annual oil changes and cleaning, I have only replaced brake blocks once and adjusted the chain about three times in 4k miles.
I enjoy fettling bikes and have to resort to doing my sons' (derailleur) bikes due to lack of required maintenance on mine!
Julian.

Andre Jute

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Re: Does this novel sprocket whip cut the mustard?
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2009, 10:55:48 pm »
Hobbes,
Please post what condition you find your transmission in when you take the chain case off.
We are all eager to hear, because an effective chain case which fits over a Rohloff set up has been a 'holy grail' which is still unresolved.
....
Julian.

Don't hold your breath. After consulting with you fellows, I've decided to let the drivetrain inspection and oil change go the full year to January, when it will be time for the warranty inspection anyway.

Meanwhile I'll start another thread with some notes on chain cases, of which I have some experience, as a way to return something.

Hobbes

avdave

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Re: Does this novel sprocket whip cut the mustard?
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2009, 08:33:45 pm »
I had no problem removing my sprocket after 3 years use using the heavy duty Park chain whip and a vice and my bike had done the previous year as an off road commuter.  I'd be very surprised if you needed to change anything but the oil and as this is  the first change I assume you have done no more than the recommended  3000 miles. With the fully enclosed system you should have very little wear.
 

vik

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Re: Does this novel sprocket whip cut the mustard?
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2010, 04:24:29 pm »


I've got one of the Pedros Vice Whips I'm reviewing for my LBS.  It works well and is easy to use. I haven't tried it on my Rohloff cog yet, but I will give it a shot.  It's nicer to use than a chain whip, but the comment about getting less leverage is correct.
Safe riding,

Vik
www.thelazyrando.com

sbseven

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Re: Does this novel sprocket whip cut the mustard?
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2010, 06:09:26 pm »
I would be interested to know how you get on, Vik.

I've decided to take my sprocket off regularly (about every 2500 km or 3 months), refitting with a copper based anti-seize preparation to avoid any stuck sprocket issues. I've just gone through 2700 km after 4 months and removed the sprocket easily with a park tool SR2. It wasn't on very tight at all. So less leverage probably wouldn't be an issue under the above regime.

Shaun