Author Topic: Trigger Shifter - Would you buy one?  (Read 4283 times)

Nuclear Nerd

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Trigger Shifter - Would you buy one?
« on: January 08, 2010, 05:19:41 AM »
Hi all

I've come up with a design for a trigger shifter adaptor for my speedhub.  It takes the place of the external mech box (it's about the same size and weight), but allows you to run the cables to any type of existing shifters.   The idea is that you can re-use your existing brifters / thumb shifters / bar ends (some people much prefer these to twist grips, and have already spend a great deal of money on them) instead of having to install the Rohloff twist grip.  Pressing one shifter's lever would shift up, and pressing the other shifter's lever would shift down.   The 'Rohloff advantage' is maintained - the mechanics still reside in the hub, so you don't have to keep adjusting as the shift cables stretch.

The next stage (prototyping and tooling) will be very expensive, and I'd like to know now whether anyone will buy the thing before I waste a new bike or two's worth of money developing it.  I've had my machinist quote the design, and I believe I could produce these for about 120 pounds.  Are Rohloff users on this board willing to pay that much for this product? I won't hold you to it obviously, but please be honest.

Thanks!

garyper

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Re: Trigger Shifter - Would you buy one?
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2010, 05:48:43 AM »
Hi,

I'm a new Rohloff user so take my lack of experience for what it is.  I dont think I'd go back to trigger shifting because with the twist I can just twist the grip and change many gears at once i.e pulled up and the lights after whizzing downhill to be faced with a step start.  It has become so easy to change gears that I change all the time and am always in the 'right' gear.  I think that might have something to do with the grip shift but I dont know.  Now if you'd asked if I'd like a different design twist shifter then I might be interested but really the benefits of the Rohloff and twist shifter combination are far too great to whinge about the design of the current shifter.

Having said that I hope you get lots of positive feedback and you do indeed go into production as more choice can only be a good thing.

Cheers
Gary


Cake

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Re: Trigger Shifter - Would you buy one?
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2010, 08:03:42 AM »
Hi Gary,

I personally have no problems at all with the twist grip and rather like it.

I think you would have lots of interest from owners of drop-bar bikes for whom ideal placement of the twist grip shifter seems to be a regular topic of discussion!

Good luck,

Gary.

PH

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Re: Trigger Shifter - Would you buy one?
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2010, 09:36:19 AM »
If they were compatible with drop bar STIs I'd be very interested.
For me they'd have to be Rohloff approved so I knew they wouldn't affect any warranty issues.  I understand Rohloff have approved products from others before.
As to whether it's a viable business proposition, I have my doubts, depends how many units you need to sell to make it worthwhile.  Hubgears are gaining in popularity, I'm sure others are also looking at new shifters, getting in there first has to be a big advantage.  Have you thought of teaming up with someone already in the field?  Jtek would seem an obvious choice.
Best of luck.

sbseven

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Re: Trigger Shifter - Would you buy one?
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2010, 11:19:38 AM »
NN, Good luck with the idea!

I'm not sure many people with straight handlebars would be interested, as the twist shifter works well and is an efficient design IMO.

So, as already stated, the market would definitely be for the drop-bar users. That's bar-ends and especially STI levers rather than trigger shifters, though. You should be able to sell some units to this market, judging by the amount of discussion on this topic in various places and £120 sounds acceptable for a low volume (well made) product to somebody who's already shelled out for a Rohloff hub and bike.

You would need to get this publicised in germany for a much larger audience. A german partner might be beneficial.

Assuming the product has some unique design, are you patent-pending it?

Shaun
« Last Edit: January 08, 2010, 03:30:03 PM by sbseven »

jags

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Re: Trigger Shifter - Would you buy one?
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2010, 12:57:37 PM »
emm never work it's just an improvement on an old desigh .now if you could figure out how to get rid of all those cables and twist shift bit like shimano done with there new  electric 10 speed groor set,you could be on to a winner..
mind you i could be wrong usually am ,best of luck though. ;)

stutho

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Re: Trigger Shifter - Would you buy one?
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2010, 04:30:14 PM »
Hi N Nerd

I might of being interested but for one thing
Quote
It takes the place of the external mech box
  I don't mean to damping you enthusiasm but I expect that most drop users (me induced) will not be using the EX model of the hub.

If a 'sorted' sti style shifter was made available then I would be first inline. 

I wish you the VERY best of luck and every successes if you do decide to proceed. 

Stutho   


Nuclear Nerd

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Re: Trigger Shifter - Would you buy one?
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2010, 07:14:20 PM »
Hi N Nerd

I might of being interested but for one thing   I don't mean to damping you enthusiasm but I expect that most drop users (me induced) will not be using the EX model of the hub.


For reasons of weight, space and complexity, the EX box is the best place to mount the adaptor.  You can buy an EX upgrade kit here, though I recognize that that adds to the cost:  http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product-Rohloff-Rohloff-External-Gear-Mech-Kit-8213-16453.htm

Thanks for the replies so far.  It looks like there's some interest, but now I'm worried that there aren't many people who have Rohloff hubs, and those who want to use their STI (esque) levers.

Andre Jute

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Re: Trigger Shifter - Would you buy one?
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2010, 04:00:18 AM »
I've come up with a design for a trigger shifter adaptor for my speedhub.  It takes the place of the external mech box (it's about the same size and weight), but allows you to run the cables to any type of existing shifters.   

I think it very unlikely that anyone would want to replace Rohloff's EX box (or buy the expensive conversion kit to an EX box only to discard the most expensive part of the kit!) unless Rohloff blesses your modification and specifically says it doesn't invalidate their warranty. Furthermore, anyone who has used the rotary control and become used to its straighthrough instant multi-gear changes, as other posters have mentioned, will not want your bright idea because it requires repeated clicking. But see below the next par...

That essentially limits you to the niche market of folk who insist on drop bars, who have problems fitting the rotary control. And even for them there are cheap solution. All your concept really offers them is in fact the facility not to take their hand off the handlebar to change gear...

However, the Rohloff rotary control isn't the nicest control in the business. Shimano's Nexus rotary controls are much smoother. Shimano has already shown the way with the Di2 electronic shift, first as a complete auto job in the Cyber Nexus for comfort bikes -- http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/BICYCLE%20Trek%20Navigator%20L700%20Smover.html -- and then in the manually controlled electronically assisted cut-down Dura-Ace version.

Let me suggest to you that instead of a mechanical trigger, you work on using a pair of stepper motors, or one bidirectional stepper motor, to operate the cables that every Rohloff owner already has installed on his bike. That gets around the problem of not working with both the internal and external shifting mechanisms, and also around the problem of discarding the EX klickbox (a very big psychological barrier to anyone who just lashed out serious money for the best German engineering). The electronic control would be a tumble switch or two buttons and can be mounted anywhere convenient. The stepper motor can be battery-operated like Shimano's Dura-Ace implementation of the Di2 concept or by a hub dynamo as in the Cyber Nexus full auto implementation of the Di2 concept; I suspect that most of the people who will splash out on a better shift will either already have hub dynamoes or just need an excuse to fit them.

Even so, I don't think there is a huge market. In my first week with the Rohloff rotary control, I might have paid thirty or forty pounds for a better shift, but now mine has been run in and is much smoother, or I've become used to it, and I won't spend even that much on an added complication. (And I'm the guy who bought a complete Cyber Nexus setup... But that entire setup, including superb electronically controlled adaptive suspension, only cost 340 Euro more than buying the same bike without the electronic gubbins) STG120 is an eighth of what someone has paid for his Rohloff box. You can get a really good wheel with hub dynamo and a superior BUMM lamp set to go with it for that. It's too much for a mere gearchanging convenience.

I might add that, were I still doing this sort of consulting, I would advise you to consider the likely limitations of the market, and *raise* your price so that your margin will cover quite a bit of advertising to reach a much smaller but well-endowed market, in much the same way that Shimano sells the Dura-Ace cut down version of Di2 for several multiples of the original, much more useful Cyber Nexus version. That is, give customers a feeling of joining an elite group, rather than merely buying utility.

I wish you luck.

Andre Jute