flying with touring bike.

[jags]

  never say never Alan.

[jags]

Scotland was always on my to do list but man it's very hilly and u know me and hills

anto.

[bikepacker]

None tougher than the Healy Pass and you did that okay. 

[jags]

what had you in mind Alan?

[bikepacker]

Get Noel to take you to Larne and I will meet you off the ferry at Cairnryan. We can then travel up to near the Highlands and ride from there. Take a week or a fortnight whichever you prefer. Although amongst the mountains the gradients are quite gentle. We could have a great time with plenty of banter.

[jags]

well sounds great but can't say yes for definite .but sure we will see how things go from now until then stranger things  happen at sea.

anto.

[bikerta]

Sounds like an excellent trip Jags, you should try Scotland, wonderful cycling. When I did my JOGLE, Scotland was the best part of the trip. The hills there seemed easier than further south (especially Devon and Cornwall)  When I did my north to south Wales last year, those hills were killers. Maybe I was just lucky and managed to pick a fairly good route through Scotland, but I loved every part of it. Good campsites on the whole too, with cheap prices. 

[jags]

Sounds great right enough Jackie but my poor back might have different idea's .
still early days yet.

anto.

[JohnMurray]

I've flown with bikes in soft bags many times with one buckled wheel the only damage. That was on the way home, so no big deal. It would have been a big deal on the way out.

Regarding mudguards, with the front wheel off, the bike rests on the mudguard when upright. This isn't normally a problem but if the SKS guards get badly bent you can't straighten them easily because of the metal inserts. I ended up cutting out the bent bit.

Tip: you can buy cardboard bike boxes at Vienna airport but they are not roomy. My bike barely fitted. They have packing tape but bring your own anyway in case they can't find it.

[Andre Jute]

Of course, if you fellows had an n'lock, such as Julian and I and others fitted, you could just remove the key, swivel the handlebars and secure them to the top tube with a velcro strap, take off the pedals, and you'd have a boxable bike in two minutes flat, same time for reassembly.

Personally, I'd rather take my bike on the ferry any day rather than trust it to the uncertain mercies of airport cargo handlers.

[Danneaux]

Of course, if you fellows had an n'lock, such as Julian and I and others fitted, you could just remove the key, swivel the handlebars and secure them to the top tube with a velcro strap, take off the pedals, and you'd have a boxable bike in two minutes flat, same time for reassembly.

<grumble> I have not had such good luck in finding larger bike boxes for my touring bikes. The ones with 700C wheels are especially long, so even if I had an n'lock, rather more disassembly would be required. Drop handlebars add challenges of their own.

Attached is a photo of a <name-disguised, no longer made> 700C-wheeled bike I flew with to Europe and back in 2008. It arrived in Amsterdam damage-free packed this way, but incurred heavy damage on the return when it was (according to the tag included in the box) selected for a bike-bomb training exercise somewhere along the way. I suspect it was in Portland, as I had to wait over two hours to collect it and no one would make eye contact with me when I asked about the delay. Neither my traveler's insurance nor my airline insurance covered the damage because it was caused by the third-party TSA, who apparently have some sort of hold-harmless agreement with both. My queries to the TSA went unanswered.

Though I had taped a photo of the packed bike to the box lid -- the bike could be lifted in and out intact and complete -- the mess I received at home had the pedals stoved through the spokes, the Brooks saddle cover was heavily damaged, bent racks, and a considerable amount of paint was damaged.

It has become really hard here (YewEssay) for me to find decent-sized boxes that hold long-wheelbase tourers; even with extensive disassembly it can be pretty tight.

Best,

Dan.

[Andre Jute]

That looks like considerable time for disassembly and reassembly, not the sort of thing you want to do in a busy airport, thus adding expensive taxi rides to and from the airport.

It's sickening to hear of such malicious damage to your bike, Dan. I imagine the TSA doesn't need a zero responsibility agreement with anyone since, being a government agency, they can't be sued for the damage they do. But that shouldn't be a license to use people's property for training exercises.

[John Saxby]

It has become really hard here (YewEssay) for me to find decent-sized boxes that hold long-wheelbase tourers; even with extensive disassembly it can be pretty tight.

Dan, you might look at this source of boxes, in Chicago: https://www.shipbikes.com/buy/

They make a range of sizes & shapes. I have an "eBike" box, which I used in Feb/17 to ship my Eclipse to Australia. The linear size is 85" -- approx 43 x 32 x 10. That proved to be very spacious. It swallowed my medium-sized bike with no disassembly of the frame & forks, and I had a lot of extra space for shoes, helmet, water bottles, seat bag, etc. I removed only the wheels, seatpost, fenders, bars and pedals.

The cardboard is quite thick & sturdy -- Shipbikes says it should be good for about 10 flights. Shipbike includes a kit of bits to protect vulnerable parts--a pair of flat mushrooms for each wheel, stiff tubes to hold forks apart, etc.  (No guarantees against wanton barbarism by baggage handlers, of course.)

One caution: Not every airline allows an 85" box without extra (possibly prohibitive) fees.

Last Feb., as we left Ottawa, the guys at the oversized baggage kiosk decided that they simply had to open the box to inspect the bike. Luckily, I was at the front of the queue--the skiers and surfboarders behind me fretted and steamed, and all I could do was to raise my shoulders, palms outwards, and roll my eyes.  The Shipbikes box opens easily and quickly, because it's laid horizontally on the ground, and one larger outer box fits over the smaller inner box. Remove the outer box, and the contents are exposed.

(If we have the same rigamarole in three weeks' time at the Ottawa airport, it's going to be a more complicated bizness:  My Raven sits snugly in a cutdown bike box, 38" x 32" x 10".  Only the lid, 10 x 38, can be opened, and not easily at that. When that's done, only bubble wrap and handlebars are visible.)

[Danneaux]

Thanks, John!

I'll surely look into it, as this would solve many problems.

All the best,

Dan.

[mickeg]

Taking the time to disassemble and reassemble a S&S fitted bike into an S&S case is not very convenient.  Plus of course the extra costs for the couplers and case.  But, it is really nice to be able to put the S&S case in the back of a taxi cab instead of worrying how I will get a big bike box to and from an airport.

I have to make a couple more flights before my S&S couplers and case are paid off with savings in airline fees, but I still am happy I made that choice.