Overpriced Brooks saddles

[DavidH]

I recently bought a Brooks B17 titanium online for £135. The delivered item was faulty - the titanium rail was broken. The online firm were very happy to do full refund. However, they were apparently being refused new supplies of saddles from the UK distributor, until they put their prices up. I would be interested to hear what people think of distributors behaving in this way, or whether you have any other examples of attempts at "Price Fixing".

[vik]

I recently bought a Brooks B17 titanium online for £135. The delivered item was faulty - the titanium rail was broken. The online firm were very happy to do full refund. However, they were apparently being refused new supplies of saddles from the UK distributor, until they put their prices up. I would be interested to hear what people think of distributors behaving in this way, or whether you have any other examples of attempts at "Price Fixing".

Setting minimum prices for the sale of an item is not new.  It serves to protect your dealer network from folks that may undercut the price of the product in question.  As a distributor you need to keep your dealers happy or they'll stop ordering product.  One of the dealer's biggest concerns is enough margin between the wholesale and retail price of a product to justify stocking it.

In the US Surly bikes has revoked the dealer privileges of several online bike vendors for selling their products below the established MSRP.

Having friends who run a small retail bike shop and working for a small company myself I can see why this policy is in place and don't have any issues with it.

If the set MSRP is too high the dealers will complain en mass and the MSRP will be dropped to something the market is happier with.

safe riding,

Vik
www.thelazyrando.com

[Fred A-M]

I bought a new brooks b17ti barely just over 18 months ago and it was retailing then at the relatively bargain price £90, so I was astonished to see DavidH quoting "only £135" and did a quick google.  It seems that £159.99 is now the RRP.  An 85% or so price hike does seem to suggest some remarkable market practices for which it is difficult to foresee full justification, regardless of whom is responsible.

[Relayer]

It seems to me that there is a premium price to be paid for 'prestige' items.  Brooks saddles fall into this category, as does Rohloff hubs, and perhaps also Thorn bikes - very large price increases in these items in the last couple of years as well.

I am glad I got my Brooks Ti saddle a couple of years ago at a lot less than they are now.  I also have no complaints having got myself a RST a couple of weeks ago even though it would have been a lot less 2 years ago.  The reason for this is that I believe these prestige products to be quality built and will last a good many years, they are also timeless and will not be outdated very quickly by the fashion police ... in other words an investment

I think therefore that if you want an item like that, get on the bus as soon as you can, or be left behind wishing you had got on a year or two ago.

[Fred A-M]

I agree Relayer ref prestige items and there is the £ devaluation to consider, but can't help feeling that a £70 price hike (just realised that this is nearer 75%), assuming Brooks products are made in the UK, is largely due to the increasing fashionability of cycling.   

As a fellow owner of an RST, congratulations! How's the experience? Any pics?

[Relayer]

Thanks Fred.
I am well pleased with the RST, still acclimatising to straight bars and not 100% convinced 26" wheels are as fast as 700c, but the comfort gain and finding myself not bothering to avoid patched roadwork means it does what I wanted it to do.
I will try to get some pics on next weekend, waiting till the bike gets a wee bit dirty for you guys but there's hardly been any rain here lately ... wierd!

[DavidH]

I think therefore that if you want an item like that, get on the bus as soon as you can, or be left behind wishing you had got on a year or two ago.

Funny enough I did - due to Fred A-M's recommendation. I pushed the boat out to £90. I was very happy with the saddle. But the saddle rails broke a few months back. Because I had the saddle set at the extreme end of the rails rather than the middle, I think my 15 stone was too much for it (I know I am bigger than many a cyclist, but did not think of myself as saddle busting fat). The breakage was just next to the seat pin.

Now I asked Thorn for advice on whether the adjustment of the seat pin might be an issue before trying to buy a new one (actually my receipt was on a broken PC, so I would not have been able to present it and ask for a replacement). But they did not get back to me - I did not buy the saddle from them, but the seat pin and rest of bike was.

Ribble sold me a new one, but bizarrely sent me one already broken in. By which I mean, already broken on the rails. It was at this point that they said Brooks will not provide them with any more. I would disagree with Relayer in describing it as a premium for prestige items. Premium implies legitimacy. The figures quoted below establish that the hike is beyond supply and demand, or supporting local bike shops (rare in rural Dorset), but a matter of a cartel distorting the market price.

On a lighter note, have just got back from the London Tour Ride with my lad. Fair amout of Bicycle Bling, especially Racers and Fixies. My lad enjoyed seeing other kids with Islabikes for a change. But I reckoned on their being but one Rohloff hub - my RST.

[Fred A-M]

I think my 15 stone was too much for it (I know I am bigger than many a cyclist, but did not think of myself as saddle busting fat).

I'm around 14 stone, and find myself concerned (equally I wouldn't describe myself in those terms) as rail breakage on the B17ti doesn't appear to be uncommon - which seems to make a distorted price hike that bit more unjustifiable! 

Relayer, I think your concerns ref wheel size will come to rest on the longer rides - the comfort factor and the Rohloff will translate into less tiring rides over distance -I'm slowing down at the wrong side of 40 so can't really comment ref impact on speed other than the RST was faster than my previous (admittedly not very good) 700c bike, but that may well have nothing to do with with wheel size.  Look forward to the updates!

[vik]

We had some big price hikes here [Canada/North America] for bike related items.  Talking to a bunch of people it seems bike companies were absorbing rising material and production costs for quite a while and then couldn't justify it any longer so the prices jumped 20-30% in one shot.  You folks in the UK seem to have had a currency exchange issue that compounded this problem.  Additionally several people told me they not only raised their prices to cover their cost increases for the last few years, but also factored in enough that they would not have to raise the cost for a couple more years down the road.  The assumption is get the pain over with once and then you don't have to raise prices for a reasonable amount of time.

So as a consumer you are buying a Brooks saddle for $90 [that's what they used to cost me] when it really should have been $110 based on the rising costs to Brooks and then one day the price jumps to $130 which is the price we'll pay until 2012.  The jump from $90 to $130 seems drastic, but if they had raised the price $5-$10 each year it wouldn't have seemed out of line.

My limited understanding of the bicycling industry [based on the vendors and manufacturers I know] suggests companies are not making huge profits and price is always an issue.  I don't think any company is just going to jack their prices recklessly because customers will buy something else.

In the case of Brooks the $90 price meant they were 50% the cost of my favourite leather saddle Selle Anatomica at $180.  If a Brooks costs me $130 I'll probably get a SA as their prices haven't gone up this year.  I'm pretty sure Brooks didn't raise their prices because they wanted a company jet.....I bet their costs have gone up a ton.

safe riding,

Vik
www.thelazyrando.com

[Danneaux]

In the past, I bought my Brooks saddles from Permaco (Persons-Majestic Co. located in the USA) at prices close to wholesale.  That is no longer possible.  The best current price on Brooks B.17 Standard saddles has got to be Thorn's offer to buy one with a new complete bicycle.  I paid only 20 pounds additional at the time I purchased my Sherpa in August, and that is a bargain no one else can touch.  Delighted!  For those fence-sitting about buying a Thorn...this is a little added incentive!

Best,

Dan.

[Relayer]

Additionally several people told me they not only raised their prices to cover their cost increases for the last few years, but also factored in enough that they would not have to raise the cost for a couple more years down the road.  The assumption is get the pain over with once and then you don't have to raise prices for a reasonable amount of time.

Vik
www.thelazyrando.com

It looks as though Vik's information above was absolutely spot on! 
UK price quoted on this thread 2 years ago for a B17 Ti £135, available today for £140.  Good news for anybody who appreciates these great saddles.

[Neil Jones]

Blimey! Off the top of my head I paid around £68 for a Brooks B17 Titanium from Spa Cycles I think around five years ago. I should have bought two looking back. Wonder why they have gone so expensive? I wouldn't have any other saddle though.

[stutho]

Yes, that is about what I paid too - and I thought that was a lot!