Mounting a Carradice Camper Longflap on a rear rack.

[in4]

Bit of a domino effect this one.
Looking to change my B17 for something with a cut-out ( Sella SMP trek or similar )
This saddle does not have saddle loops but I can buy them from SJS.
Alternatively I was thinking about mounting the saddle bag longitudinally; along the length of the rack. There must be a work around. I wondered if anyone had tried. One advantage I thought of is that the load would be well supported on the rack and not ‘bounce around’ like it might do if conventionally mounted, even with the Carradice Bagnan support.
My aim is to have a lightweight touring ( none camping)  set up with the Camper Longflap, Ortlieb Ultimate bar bag and maybe a small frame bag.
TIA

[martinf]

Not tried it, but the Carradice Bagman Quick Release Expedition Saddlebag Rack doesn't require saddle loops.

Until recently I was using something with a similar function, a Lord Uplift, this used to be sold mail order (30-40 years ago) by the chap that made them.

Visible in the first photo in the thread below:

https://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=12048.0
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A Carradice Camper Longflap will fit lengthwise on the top of a Thorn rear rack, but I haven't tried to fix a saddlebag to the rack in this position.

It would be easier to hang it off one side, and stabilise it with a strap round one of the rack struts.

But for me, the main point of using a traditional saddlebag is to avoid fitting a rack to the bike. If I have a rack I use pannier bags. Usually just one small one for day rides. For carrying more luggage I use two small, medium or large panniers depending on how much capacity I need.

With a stiff rack (Thorn or Tubus), I don't notice any difference in handling when carrying just one lightly loaded pannier bag.   

[Andyb1]

Rok-straps might work well to hold your bag longitudinally on the rack.  They come in two halves and each half has a loop at the end.  You would feed the strap around the side of the rack and back through the loop, do the same with the other half of the strap on the opposite side of the rack, clip the two haves together and then tighten.  The straps and clips are flat material and strong, and one half is elastic so they stay tight.   Two straps needed.  Have a look at their web site.
Safer and more secure than bungees with hooks.

[Danneaux]

Not exactly what you asked for, Ian, but...

Among my many projects on the burner is a DanneauxMade quick-release mount for *any* saddle rails.

I have some billet aluminum I plan to use to sandwich the saddle rails, clamped by a short (think seatpost collar) quick-release. The usual Carradice hardwood dowel will be reinforced on the outside of the bag with some half-round aluminum tubing (i.e. sectioned seatpost of handlebars...or replaced entirely eith tubing), secured through the lower billet clamp, tubing, bag fabric, and hardwood using longer bolts of the same diameter as original.

My goal here is to make my Carradice Camper Longflap mountable to virtually any saddle with exposed rails and, further, to make it quick-release de/mountable so I can take it quickly into a store with me while shopping or inside my tent to unload at my leisure if rain is bucketing down.

I've a few projects ahead of this one, but have assembled all the materials and it looks both simple and viable, which pushes for completion soonish.

Best, Dan.

[in4]

That sounds like a simple but effective solution. I'll look into that. Thanks.
I already have some male and female velcro straps that I've used to secure the CLF's base across the rear rack so I might be able to modify that set up.
Thanks again

Dan, that sounds like a very useful project to pursue. I'll look forward to seeing the prototype in due course.

I really like the CLF but I've rarely used it. That's primarily because it is awkward to take on and off if you're not using a Carradice bagman rack, more so if you already have a Thorn rack fitted. I think I last used it when I cycled down the west coast of Eire and carried my tent in it; leaving the CLF attached.

[Andyb1]

A pretty full packed bike!

[mickeg]

I took the first attached photo about a decade ago.  Someone made this bracket to support their bikepacking type saddle bag.

And the second photo shows how I put my Pendle bag on my road bike, I used a shim and a long threadless stem, plus a wood dowel (sprayed black) that my saddle bag attaches to.  My Brooks Pro lacks the saddle bag loops, so the Pendle straps wrap around the dowel.  I used a 5/16 inch diameter aluminum rod to support my bag weight, but if you wanted to support the weight of a packed Camper I think the system I am showing in this second photo would not hold the weight, that was why I showed the first photo.  It was pretty easy for me to bend the 5/16 inch aluminum rod to get it to fit exactly the way I wanted, but I only tested it with two kg of weight inside the saddle bag on a bumpy ride to see if that rod was sufficient to keep my Pendle from rubbing on the tire.  It holds two kg (two water bottles, one liter each for weight in the Pendle for my test).

In other words, you could build up something to support the weight under the saddle bag, and a separate bracket like mine using a threadless stem (plus seatpost shim) to put the saddle bag straps on since you would lack the saddle loops.

But before you try to build something like this, I am tall enough (about 6 foot) that my saddle has a good height above my rear 700c tire, if you are shorter, you might not have the height you would need for tire clearance under the bag if you attached your bag to a stem mounted on the seatpost like I did.  Note the third photo, I have the tire clearance I need.

[brummie]

Thorn accessory bar. Bag supported on rack.

[martinf]

Carradice saddlebag with Lord uplift. I have posted this to give an idea of one way of fitting a saddlebag to a saddle without loops. I could probably have made this myself, but at the time it was easier to buy this uplift. It gives a quick release saddlebag, but the uplift itself stays clamped to the saddle rails.

Two hooks on the upper part of the uplift engage two Allen bolts that are screwed into the cylindrical aluminium rod that replaces the original wood dowel that comes with the saddlebag. A flexible plastic clip replaces the leather strap that stabilises the lower part of the bag, this allows the bottom of the bag to release from the aluminium rod on the lower part of the uplift, it is then possible to lift the bag forwards and upwards to disengage the Allen bolts from the hooks to remove the bag.

I have used this system for about 3 decades, predominantly on lightweight bikes with no racks. It works quite well, but one downside is that I tended to chafe cycling shorts on the hooks on the (rare) occasions that I rode without a saddlebag. On the other hand, this uplift puts the bag a bit higher up and a fair bit further back, giving me more room for my thighs than with a saddlebag attched to saddle loops and seatpost.

The first 3 photos are of the saddlebag attached to the uplift, which has been removed from the bike saddle.
The 4th photo is of the bag which has been removed from the uplift.

[martinf]

More photos.

The first photo is of the plastic clip that clips the saddlebag onto the lower part of the uplift.
The other 3 photos are of the uplift without the saddlebag

[martinf]

Final photo. Another view of the uplift without the saddlebag.

[mickeg]

Carradice saddlebag with Lord uplift. I have posted this to give an idea of one way of fitting a saddlebag to a saddle without loops. I could probably have made this myself, but at the time it was easier to buy this uplift. ...

Great discussion and photos.  Thanks for posting.

On the topic of doing it yourself with aluminum rods and bars, it is my experience that the bar and rod stock that I buy at the hardware store is much more flexible than the metal parts that come on manufactured parts. 

Thus, my home made stuff is often weaker with lower weight capacity than commercially made components when using aluminum.

[mickeg]

Carradice saddlebag with Lord uplift. ...
...
... On the other hand, this uplift puts the bag a bit higher up and a fair bit further back, giving me more room for my thighs than with a saddlebag attched to saddle loops and seatpost.
...

I did not like my Carradice bags hitting my legs.  I have made a modificaiton on my bikes where I can use the Carradice straps on saddle bag loops or on my Conquest saddles where there are no bag loops, but springs that I can use as a substitute for the saddle bag loops.

I use a threadless stem, shimmed to fit on the seatpost, and a wood dowel to push the bag further to the rear at the lower part of the bag where the strap is.  I also use a longer strap, in this case use a leather toe clip strap.  First photo below.

And since I am showing photos, I have commented before that I put a piece of coroplast inside the bag to give it more structure and better shape when partially empty, second photo.  The coroplast is simply bent into a U shape, not physically attached to the bag.  Thus, if I have one small heavy item in the bag, it does not sag.  I initially tried paper cardboard, but when I was happy with the result I replaced it with coroplast which retains shape better when damp or wet.

The bag shown is a Pendle.

[Danneaux]

Carradice saddlebag with Lord uplift.

Thank you so much for posting these detailed photos and for the descriptions, Martin.

You can't imagine the time I put into looking online for photos showing the fine details of this mount!

Best, Happy Dan.

[Danneaux]

I took the first attached photo about a decade ago.  Someone made this bracket to support their bikepacking type saddle bag.

George, that support in your first photo consists of the hoop connecting the two side plates of an original Blackburn Lowrider front rack. The connectors are sourced from an original (Mk1) Tubus Cargo rack (rods and adjustable tilt-plate, around 2007), a reflector bracke, and a piece of aluminum 90° angle. I found the same photo back in the day and made one using the same parts!

It worked well enough in concept and was stable, but the aluminum rod hoop was unnecessarily long and began to show signs of stress at the clamp. Also, it wasn't compatible with my rear pannier rack, so it didn't remain in service long. A good try, though, and top marks to the original innovator for repurposing existing parts!

The "handlebar bag" under-bag support on the seatpost is really clever, George.

When Forum member JulianK kindly gave me his old CCL, he included a Karrimor-style uplift bracket that engaged my Brooks saddle loops. It released quickly and easily, but I largely stopped using it out of concern larger loads could apply a lot of torque to the saddle loops, especially on bumpy roads. That started me noodling for something more solid, like the billet Q/R I described above. I really must spend some time out in my metal shop to bring it to reality!

I bought Thorn's extended T-bar uplift back in...2011, I think. It used machine screws and acorn nuts at either end of the cross and the idea was you could leve the CCL's leather straps a bit loose and so ease them over the acorn nuts when you need to quickly de/mount the bag. It worked but wasn't as stable as I'd hoped.

I also tried the nylon boat cleat trick...bolting the cleat through the bag and into the hardwood dowel. Undo the lower seatpost strap, give it a little wiggle, and the cleat's crossbar slipped between the saddle rails, yet was secure otherwise. Unfortunately, it tended to rattle unbearable on rougher roads and the bag wiggle a fair bit as the cleat's nylon crossbar wiggled back-and-forth despite the lower securement.

Best, Dan.