Which bike is for me? Rohloff or not?

[melw1]

Hello all, this is my first post on here...

Next year is a Big Birthday year for me (the dreaded four oh) Hubby is open to the idea of an extra bike for me. Got a while to choose but I'm starting early! Have you got a mo to help me choose? If so, read on....

Here's my criteria:

I already have a Galaxy but nothing to go moderately off road with kids etc. Not talking real off road mountain biking - just rough trails but it must also:

Be a day to day utility bike, be able to tow trailer with 2 kids in - brakes must be excellent (something the Galaxy is still lacking whilst trailering). The less maintenance the better.

I think I'd prefer straight bars rather than drops to give added stability on rough trails.

Be capable of being fairly swift on road - would like to use it to tow kids to school (18mile return journey that I do once a week). But doesn't have to do my CTC club runs etc as Galaxy used for that. But the faster the better....(realise I can't have everything!)

Has to have low gears of course for our hills here in Wales with trailer behind me.

We plan to do the C2C route next summer so again would be nice to be able to go off road (wouldn't do the really hard off road bits though) laden with panniers. (Staying in B&Bs).

If we can scrape together enough £££ then contemplating the idea of Rolhoff hub ...Maybe Raven tour or Raven tour sport? However, as the Rolhoff hub is so expensive is it worth going down that route or not? I like the sound of the XtC or Sherpa too... but with flat bars? Would that work ok?

Is the Rolhoff hub worth the extra money do you think?
Is the Sport Tour or XtC about the same "speed" on road as the Galaxy? How much "slower" is the non sport version?  If there is a bike that could do everything I might consider selling the Galaxy...thus giving me more funds to spend.

Anyone got the various bikes mentioned above?
All opinions gratefully received,

Melanie

[ians]

Hi

tough call.  I had a Super Galaxy for years -now have Raven Sport Tour.  You'll find plenty of posts here about the virtues of Thorn in general and Rolhoff in particular.

From what you say the Raven Tour would probably do the trick. I tried one down at SJS and it's surprisingly nimble.  I went for the Sport Tour in the end because it's a little lighter and I don't need the extra load carrying capacity.

Do you require a step-through frame?  If so it would have to be the Raven Tour.

As for Rohloff - yes yes yes.

It's worth a trip down to Bridgewater if you can manage it.

There's a chart in one of the posts about the virtues of each model which should help.

Good luck

Ian

[melw1]

Thanks for your reply. I'm not bothered about a step through frame.  

How does the Sport version compare with your Super Galaxy with regard to nimhbleness?

[melw1]

And do you have drops or straight bars?

[lancer17]

I was unsure Rohloff or not, it is a lot of money, I have only done just over 300 miles on mine but I think it is great. Would I buy it again? Defiantly, and would do it sooner.
 The Raven Tour will do the C2C with it off road sections no problem, the frame is quite sporty but soft all at the same time, I find that hard to say but it is. I don't know about the trailer, but call them at SJSC they are really helpful, they could teach a lot of other  companies about customer service. From what you say you want to do I think the RT would be very suitable.
I agree with Ian go and see them if you can and have a test ride, Dan gave me a RT and told me “go ride it for 20 minutes or 6 hours take as long as you need, we close at 5.30PM,”  even offered me a local map, so I could get well in to the lanes to give it a good try.

Now I have a bike on a 100 day trial that I can swap or get my money back if I am not happy!!!! From what I have heard and seen of SJSC I believe they would honour that.
So nothing to lose try a Raven for 100 days if the cash can stretch that far, and if you don't like it, have a Sherpa or your money back, it just does not get any better than that.  Trouble is  I don't think it will end up going back

I went for the Raven as I wanted a bike that I could rely on totally and it says a lot that Thorn have just dropped the Nomad from there range and it is now only available as a Raven. The Rohloff just works, I think if you get one the Galaxy will end up more and more in the shed, as you realise the RT can do it all. For me I think it will be all the bike I ever need and some

Richard[]

[julk]

melw1,

What a thoughtful hubby you have. You have specified a Thorn Raven Tour in your wishlist, of course there are variations leaning more towards lightly loaded on-road or off-road use available, but all are more expensive, you will find more details on the Thorn website. It is what suits you and your riding that counts - I am sure you will have fun choosing.

Personally I ride straight bars now, Thorn Carbon Expedition Riser, I find them much better in close traffic and on rough surfaces than riding on drops. If you ride mostly on drops then you will find using straight bars a bit of a change. The Thorn comfort bars have a backward sweep of around 18º and I find this makes them really comfy to use even over longer distances such as a days run on a hilly camping tour. I use Ergon grips -  the ones with a flat platform to give extra support to your hands - wonderful.
You will find others here on the forum who have tried straights and gone back to drops. The great thing about a Thorn Raven is the 100 days during which Thorn will respond to you and change things if needed - one poster even had his frame changed to make the switch to drops give him the proper reach and riding comfort.

The Rohloff hub is great to ride, very little maintenance needed, and offers a wide range of gears. I love being able to change gear when stationary. You may not like it if you are used to very close ratios as found on fast road bikes. Costwise, it is reckoned that you will spend the same amount of money on Rohloff or derailleur over say ten years of riding. The difference is that the Rohloff cost is mostly up front, the derailleur cost is mostly in frequent replacement of transmission parts plus the extra maintenance work required.

[ians]

Mel

I use Thorn comfort bars and Ergon grips.  Ergon grips are (IMHO) great.

As for which is quicker - the Galaxy or the Sport Tour? - I'd say the ST.  Rohloff is not just about low maintenance - a linear 14 speed gear system makes a lot of difference to me - no overlapping ratios or fumbling changes on the triple.  The Rohloff just makes for a smoother ride.

The weight of the system is not far off a triple/cassette block and all levers/cables etc.  But it is all concentrated at the back which takes some getting used to.

As the others have said - the 100 day trial takes a lot of the guess work out of choosing a new bike.

ian

[PH]

I have a Raven Tour which has done everything I've asked from it, I have no regrets.  If I was buying now and it was going to be my only bike I'd have a Raven again.  As, like you, I already have a good traditional tourer I'd look for something that complemented it rather than competed.  Looking at your requirements and the present Thorn range I'd choose Sterling.
I've been looking at jp06’s Sterling here
http://www.sjscycles.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1459
The geometry and riding position don't look radically different to that of my Raven.  What's gained is the lighter frame, ability to use disk brakes and shorter chainstays (Making it a better trailer puller) what’s lost is the ability to carry heavy loads (You'll still have the Galaxy for that) and I suspect it won't be as robust due to the lighter tubes.
Brakes - I have a carbide rim with the specific pads, they're as good as the best rim brakes I've tried in the dry and in the wet far better.  Yet they still don't come close to the power and modulation of even cheap disks.
Rohloff - The price is going to add £250-£300 to the price of a bike.  As julk suggests that's going to pay for itself in time, how much time depends on how much it gets used.  Mine gets used a lot and I reckon it paid for itself within two years. If it wasn't going to get used that much I'd probably have stuck with a derailleur bike.  

[melw1]

Thanks all of you for your comments - interesting thought, PH - I hadn't even considered the Stirling - thought it too off road, but maybe not...Interesting comments re the trailering...

Must admit, so far I think my fav would be the Raven Tour...but I have plenty of time to think - birthday not for 6 months yet, unfortunately.

Ergon grips look good - does anyone have the GR2 model grips - the ones that incororate the bar ends - thought this would save room on the gripshift side...? http://www.ergon-bike.com/en/grips/gr2.html

[julk]

melw1,

I have large hands and tried the GR2 Ergon grips with built in bar ends to save some space. I found them a bit restricting in that my right hand was up against the bar end in normal riding. I like to ride with my right hand alongside, but not on, the Rohloff changer. Moving my hand sideways to change gear when necessary.
The bar ends themselves are quite small and again I found them unsatisfactory for out of saddle hill climbing. .

I started with the 'standard' ergon grips without bar ends built in and returned to them as I found them more comfortable to use. I expected to miss the bar ends as fitted to my previous bike, but I find that I don't miss them now. I ride up hills seated and spinning as low/high a gear as I can manage.
I even walk up some hills when laden with a full camping load and feeling very tired.

I also tried a few handlebars before settling on the Thorn Expedition one as being the best width for me with the sweep back which gives me comfort in the arms, shoulders and back. When I go back and ride my old bike the handlebar width/shape gives me a sore back now! I was surprised just how different a handlebar can feel for just a small change in width and/or shape.

[lewis noble]

Hello Melanie - I have no doubt that any of the Raven range would suit you well, and the choice boils down to personal preference / taste.  A visit to Bridgewater would help you decide.  My Raven Tour is a well-specced model; if I was starting again, I would probably stick to a more basic spec and would probably not notice the difference.  The CCS rims, however, do seem very strong and long-lasting, though I cannot get rid of the brake squeal - it doesn't bother me.  Even though my bike is the 'heaviest ' in the range, it goes surprisingly well and I have the confidence of knowing that it will stand up to anything - the roads on my normal day-to-day routes in Sheffield are horrendous - worse than anything I came across on the Walney to Whitby lanes.

Good luck.

Lewis

[stutho]

Hi melw1,

quote:If we can scrape together enough £££ then contemplating the idea of Rolhoff hub ...Maybe Raven tour or Raven tour sport? However, as the Rolhoff hub is so expensive is it worth going down that route or not?

It is absolutely worth it.  Both the Hub and the Raven frames are excellent.  Yes it is expensive - initially - but if you ride a lot the pay back is the smile you get every time you ride. Not to mention  a huge reduction in maintenance.  You have got one of the best roads in the country not far from you - the Lamberis pass.  This is perfect territory for a 'RAVEN' mountainous and beautiful.

So the question is which Raven to go for?
   
I own a Raven Sport Tour, with drop bar. It a fantastic bike and I won’t swap, however, for my wife's birthday I bought her a Raven Tour with straight bars.  My reasoning was that while my main focus was fast rural commute my wife’s main focus was very different.  She likes to go for more relaxed rides, often with our little girl in a child seat.  Luckily for me both my wife and I take the same frame size and therefore I now have some experience of both the Raven (both on and off road).

Other than the bars both bikes are set up with very similar components (the RT is geared a bit lower).  So here are differences, as I perceive them:

• Weight - nope I can’t tell which is lighter, The RST is lighter on the scales but by the time you add the rack, mudguards and so on it doesn't make too much difference.  Very occasionally (once last year) I will strip off all the extra clobber and go for a summer ride.  But then the next day it’s raining again so the mudguards go back on.
• Climbing - RST is noticeably better.   Even though the RT has lower gearing I prefer hill climbing on the RST.
 
• Speed – RST is quite a bit quicker, possibly due to the h'bar.  I prefer drop bars in most situations, except off road, others have different views.
• Stability - Without a doubt the RT win here.  I thought the RST was a very stable bike (and it is) but the RT seams to be glued to the road.
• Light off road - (using the same 1.95 tyres) climbing and on the flat both are excellent, downhill the RT is better (from the extra stability)  Both bikes are very usable off road.
• Rough off road - RT is more responsive however I believe that if the RST had flat bars on it, then it would be an even battle.
• Load carrying - without a doubt the RT wins, again through the greater stability.
• Trailer pulling - I have yet to use the RT with a trailer.  The RST is partly designed with trailer towing in mind.  I am not a fan of trailers but the few times I have pulled a trailer with the RST I didn't had any issues.
• Liveliness - The really hard to quantify 'feel factor'.  The RST is more lively however the difference is not that great.  The time I really feel a big difference in when climbing or sprinting hard.  In short the more energy you put in the more the RST rewards you.
• Comfort - Both are very comfortable bike and I can (and have) stayed in the saddle of either one all day long without any problems at all.  Personally I prefer the RST but I am sure that this is due to H'bars and stem.  (My wife uses a riser bar that I don’t like.)  She find her RT more comfortable than my RST

The choice between the 2 bikes is a very close run thing.  In your case I would imaging there will be 3 deciding factors:

• Load carrying - do you CURRENTY carry more than 12kg to 17Kg if so then you are going to need a RT.
• Club Runs - I suspect that you might well find that you are quicker on a RST (esp. drop equipped) than on your Galaxy. (nb I have never owned a Dawes so I can’t compare)
• Off road - Both bikes will handle light off road without any issues.  Flat bars would be better here but it is possible to get away with drops.  I don’t hesitate to take my RST (with drops) off road.

I don’t believe you would be disappointed with either Raven.  There is lots of good opinion and advice on this list but at the end it is you that will be riding the bike so you need to make the decisions that you are happy with .

Best of luck, and happy birthday for 6 months time!

Stutho
PS No I don’t work for SJSC        

[melw1]

Thank you again for all your comments, especially Stutho - a great comparison between the two bikes and handlebars....

I too prefer drops on the road but off road on the Galaxy I feel very unstable, but that might be a Galaxy thing - it not being particularly designed to go off road! The extra stem for the changer puts me off a bit too on the Thorn with drops... How do you all get on with the changer there?

Common sense says Raven Tour with flat bars to me and to keep the Galaxy....but if I sell the Galaxy then its a Sport version and drops...

I guesss I need to try them now and start saving like mad! I'll try to get down to SJSC in the new year to have a play!

[stutho]

Hi melw1,

After the first week the shifter on the stem becomes second nature.  Because I have got so used to the shifter in this location I find the shifter on my wife's bike a bit awkward!

quote:Common sense says Raven Tour with flat bars to me and to keep the Galaxy....but if I sell the Galaxy then its a Sport version and drops..

 Sounds like a plan!
 

[sloe]

If you want it on your birthday you'll need to put your deposit down well in advance. It was six weeks last spring! Can't imagine it'll be less this spring.