Thoughts on laying Rohloff Nomad on side while camping

[dsim]

Hello everyone,

I landed in Baku yesterday before getting the ferry to Kazakhstan in a few days and I just realised I left my clickstand at home! I also forgot my eye mask but luckily the airline provided a free one. Sadly they didn't provide a custom clickstand though.

When I get to Kazakhstan I'm not expecting much in the way of trees, walls, or fences to lean my bike against whilst camping.

Is laying the bike on its side (drivetrain since I have a disc brake) a big deal for oil leakage?

Would it be worth putting in the full Rohloff 25ml or stick with the SJS 12.5ml recommendation since some might leak out?

Or perhaps change the oil more often than 5,000 km?

I'm a bit annoyed I forgot the clickstand, although I wouldn't want to use it on soft ground anyway because even with the larger foot it had a habit of sinking.

I'll probably keep a pannier attached on the top side to stop rain from falling into it or find another solution for rain.

Do you think laying it on its side while camping will be a big issue?

[PH]

Sounds like a great trip.  I nearly always lay the bike down on the drive side, doesn't tend to leak any oil that side.  On a derailleur bike it would be unadvisable, but only because the derailleurs are delicate.  The only thing to consider is that the chain might be picking up a bit more dirt, just wipe and oil it a bit more often.

[Danneaux]

Kicking myself as I post 'cos this is off-topic/tangential to the OP's question...

I'm a bit annoyed I forgot the clickstand, although I wouldn't want to use it on soft ground anyway because even with the larger foot it had a habit of sinking.

To solve this problem on soft forest floor and dusty or soupy desert playa, I carry a tennis ball with a hole in it, cut using a hole saw. It is self-centering, provides a much bigger "foot" for the tip of the Click-Stand and the fuzzy surface provides a remarkable amount of friction. Neon yellow color makes it hard to lose.

Something to keep in mind when you get back home and for future tours.

Pulling things back on-topic: Dunno if you're running a rear disc but if so, Paul's advice to lay the bike on the drive side applies in spades so you don't inadvertently oil the disc. Rohloff say enough oil will remain in the hub coating the gears to get you where you need to go even with a substantial leak.

Best, Dan.

[WorldTourer]

Is laying the bike on its side (drivetrain since I have a disc brake) a big deal for oil leakage?

I lay my Rohloff-equipped bike down all the time, including last year on the very route you’re on. While oil leakage is a thing with Rohloffs, in my experience it is a very, very slow appearance of oil on the quick-release and around the external-shifting box, which I periodically wipe off with a soapy cloth once a month or so. It isn’t something that happens at once when the bike is laid down.

In the bikepacking scene, where clickstands never quite took off (perhaps because one is so often around soft soil), all the Rohloff owners are usually laying their bikes down on the non-drive side all the time.

You shouldn't have to lay the bike on the drive side in order to protect your disc rotor, the small oil leakage in my experience doesn’t reach the rotor, and in terms of impact the disc rotor should be protected by your seat stay and rear rack. Laying your bike on the non-drive side is the standard practice, just look at how frame bags are designed to be opened on the drive side.

I'll probably keep a pannier attached on the top side to stop rain from falling into it or find another solution for rain.

The Rohloff is very weather-sealed. You don't need to protect the Rohloff when laying it down outside your tent for the night. If you are still using a chain instead of a belt-drive, though, then of course you have to think about the chain.

[PH]

Laying your bike on the non-drive side is the standard practice, just look at how frame bags are designed to be opened on the drive side.

Or you might say, as I did, that laying the bike on the derailleur side is inadvisable. When you ride Rohloff, you can think Rohloff, and decide for yourself if standard practice applies.

[Matt2matt2002]

Kaz?
I went through Kyrgystan and Tajikistan a few years ago on my Raven with a Rohloff.
No kickstand. No problems.
I'd be interested to hear about your trip.

Only 'problem' I had was that after 1,000 miles I realized that my Schwalbe Marathons were facing the wrong way! I had put them on myself before I flew out - so no-one else to blame.
Rohloff didn't appear to mind laying down next to my tent.

Best

Matt

[WorldTourer]

Or you might say, as I did, that laying the bike on the derailleur side is inadvisable. When you ride Rohloff, you can think Rohloff, and decide for yourself if standard practice applies.

Even without a derailleur, one wouldn’t want to lie the back down on the drive side because it could result in contamination of the chain.

[dsim]

Thanks for the responses everyone. It seems like the general consensus is that laying a Rohloff on its side isn't as big a problem as I thought it might be.

WorldTourer's comment about if using a chain rather than a belt made me realise I left my spare belt in an Ortlieb pannier I decided against in favour of my Arkel pannier.

Luckily my dad found the belt and it's on its way with UPS - should arrive on Thursday hopefully.

So glad I made this topic as I might have got to the middle of nowhere in Kazakhstan before realising I forgot it!

This also means my clickstand is on its way out to me too. I'll get a tennis ball as recommended by Danneaux to help it in soft ground.

[Danneaux]

Wishing you safe, happy travels, David, with just enough unexpected Adventure to make for no real inconvenience but only good stories in the years to come!

Best, Dan.

[WorldTourer]

WorldTourer's comment about if using a chain rather than a belt made me realise I left my spare belt in an Ortlieb pannier I decided against in favour of my Arkel pannier. Luckily my dad found the belt and it's on its way with UPS - should arrive on Thursday hopefully.

If you need more stuff sent to you along the way: DHL from European online bike shops to a hotel address in Bukhara or Samarkand does work, but may take three weeks. (I waited that long for a replacement Schwalbe tire and other small purchases last season. Samarkand was a nice rest stop, and I could take a shared taxi to the border to do a visa run and extend my time in-country.) Green House Hostel in Dushanbe (highly recommended that you stay there for a couple of days or weeks, it is where most cyclists and other overlanders stay) can get things flown in from Moscow in a couple of days.

If you are not on the WhatsApp group, ask for an invite from the next cyclists you meet. Most substantial and informed discussion about cycling Central Asia now goes on there, not anywhere on the open web. Also, Caravanistan website is useful for red tape.

[mickeg]

Sounds like the stuff you need is on the way, but back to your questions on oil volume.

Rohloff used to recommend 25ml, but SJS often recommended 15ml instead. (At one time, SJS recommended less than 10ml, but I have not seen that repeated for a long time.)

Then more recently Rohloff cut that 25ml recommendation in half to 12.5ml.  Now when you buy Rohloff lube oil, you only get half as much as you used to get.
https://www.rohloff.de/en/company/news/news/reduzierte-oelmenge-fuer-oelwechsel-ab-10-2023

Note that the cleaning oil volume remains the same.

If you have a bottle of 25ml, I would only put half in, save the other half for future use.  If your hub gets noisy later, perhaps add some then?

If I had a disc on my Rohloff and had to lay it down, I would lay it down on the drive side.  My Rohloff leaks badly on the non-drive side.  I agree with PH on this.  My Rohloff is on a rim brake bike, no disc.  That said, mine is chain drive, I do not know if this could put your belt in jeopardy.

Last time I flew somewhere with my Rohloff, I did a oil drain and cleaning oil rinse.  Then flew with the hub empty.  Added my lube oil upon arrival.  I did it that way because my hub leaks quite a bit on the non-drive side.  But for my trip home, I did nothing, flew with the remaining oil in the hub but since much had leaked out I did not worry about it.

Side note on clickstand:  I do not have one, but I made a substitute for one from cutting segments on an old tent pole shorter, and two trekking pole rubber tips.  But my version only works on frames where the seat stays are welded on the back of the seat tube, not on the sides of the seatstay.  Welding the frame that way  creates a pocket that the tent pole can fit into.  I use an extra thick hair elastic band for a parking brake, in the photo I have two elastics.

[dsim]

Wishing you safe, happy travels, David, with just enough unexpected Adventure to make for no real inconvenience but only good stories in the years to come!

Best, Dan.

It's only a minor inconvenience and I'm thankful I made this post which reminded me that I left the belt at home. I can't wait to get on the road. Hopefully the package doesn't arrive late but it's already been delayed as a trailer didn't turn up in time according to the tracking details.

[dsim]

WorldTourer's comment about if using a chain rather than a belt made me realise I left my spare belt in an Ortlieb pannier I decided against in favour of my Arkel pannier. Luckily my dad found the belt and it's on its way with UPS - should arrive on Thursday hopefully.

If you need more stuff sent to you along the way: DHL from European online bike shops to a hotel address in Bukhara or Samarkand does work, but may take three weeks. (I waited that long for a replacement Schwalbe tire and other small purchases last season. Samarkand was a nice rest stop, and I could take a shared taxi to the border to do a visa run and extend my time in-country.) Green House Hostel in Dushanbe (highly recommended that you stay there for a couple of days or weeks, it is where most cyclists and other overlanders stay) can get things flown in from Moscow in a couple of days.

If you are not on the WhatsApp group, ask for an invite from the next cyclists you meet. Most substantial and informed discussion about cycling Central Asia now goes on there, not anywhere on the open web. Also, Caravanistan website is useful for red tape.

Thanks for the tips! Do you have the WhatsApp group number by chance? Not sure if it should be shared in a way that can be gobbled up by Google though.

I brought a spare tyre with me because last year in Bulgaria the sidewall separated from the tread on my Mondial. SJS provided a replacement and I got another one to carry as a spare.

I think the Kazakh-Uzbek border crossing near Beyneu is closed at the moment so I'll be mainly in Kazakhstan. I might have to take a train to do a border run into Uzbekistan though since it's a long way to Kyrgyzstan without going through Uzbekistan!

[dsim]

Sounds like the stuff you need is on the way, but back to your questions on oil volume.

Rohloff used to recommend 25ml, but SJS often recommended 15ml instead. (At one time, SJS recommended less than 10ml, but I have not seen that repeated for a long time.)

Then more recently Rohloff cut that 25ml recommendation in half to 12.5ml.  Now when you buy Rohloff lube oil, you only get half as much as you used to get.
https://www.rohloff.de/en/company/news/news/reduzierte-oelmenge-fuer-oelwechsel-ab-10-2023

Note that the cleaning oil volume remains the same.

If you have a bottle of 25ml, I would only put half in, save the other half for future use.  If your hub gets noisy later, perhaps add some then?

If I had a disc on my Rohloff and had to lay it down, I would lay it down on the drive side.  My Rohloff leaks badly on the non-drive side.  I agree with PH on this.  My Rohloff is on a rim brake bike, no disc.  That said, mine is chain drive, I do not know if this could put your belt in jeopardy.

Last time I flew somewhere with my Rohloff, I did a oil drain and cleaning oil rinse.  Then flew with the hub empty.  Added my lube oil upon arrival.  I did it that way because my hub leaks quite a bit on the non-drive side.  But for my trip home, I did nothing, flew with the remaining oil in the hub but since much had leaked out I did not worry about it.

Side note on clickstand:  I do not have one, but I made a substitute for one from cutting segments on an old tent pole shorter, and two trekking pole rubber tips.  But my version only works on frames where the seat stays are welded on the back of the seat tube, not on the sides of the seatstay.  Welding the frame that way  creates a pocket that the tent pole can fit into.  I use an extra thick hair elastic band for a parking brake, in the photo I have two elastics.

I must have got Rohloff's new recommendation mixed up with SJS. I tried to do 12.5 ml of oil, but pretty sure I put 14ml in because my syringe only goes up in increments of 2ml.

I've got 60ml each of the cleaning oil and Rohloff oil with me which I decanted from my big bottles at home into some 60ml nalgene bottles. That gives 4 oil changes, although only just over 2 lots of cleaning oil.

That's good for 15,000 km including the fresh oil that's in it now though.

Great solution for a DIY clickstand. The cradle part is the only part that would be hard to source

[PH]

When it comes to oil volume, it's worth remembering 7ml never leaves the hub.  Getting that 7ml to the highest, cleanest, standard is at least as important as how much spare oil you have in there.  I'm a bit disappointed Rohloff now only supply 12.5ml pre change.  I've been following the Andy Blance method from the "Living with a Rohloff" booklet - flush (Sometimes double flush) - add 25ml oil - mix well - drain 18ml out.  I might have to review that next time I need to buy oil.