Club Tour questions

[deejayen]

I'm considering a Club Tour Mk5, but some reviews suggest it's a bit reluctant to make turns - it wants to keep going straight on.  I suppose that will make it stable with a load, but perhaps it will feel a bit too lethargic when out for shorter, faster rides and audaxes.  Has anyone experienced this with the Club Tour?

I'm also wondering about sizing.  I would probably prefer a drop bar version, but there's only a Long version (for straight bars) in my size.  I see that Long and Short versions have different fork offsets, and maybe different head tube angles.  Ignoring fit issues (hopefully resolved with a different stem) are there any reasons why drop bars wouldn't work on a Long frame?

I was originally thinking more along the lines of an audax bike, but there are probably benefits to a touring bike.  It's just difficult to know...  Similarly, perhaps straight bars (with bar ends) might also be fine.

I get the impression the Club Tour isn't a particularly popular model, but it must have some fans…!

[JohnR]

Head yube angle and fork offset combine to give the trail which can be calculated here http://yojimg.net/bike/web_tools/trailcalc.php. There's discussion of the subject at https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?t=153145 (and plenty more in that forum). Unfortunately, Thorn's geometry table for the Club Tour frame https://www.sjscycles.com/Instructions/Thorn/Thorn_Club_Tour_Mk5_Frame_Size_Matrix.pdf doesn't give the head angle so you'll have to ask. I suspect that the designer provided more fork offset for the shorter frames to reduce the risk of toe overlap. The head tube angles may also differ to try to achieve simiar trail.

Drop bars on the long frame may need a very short stem to achieve the required saddle - handlebar distance. Would a size smaller frame work? There's usually some overlap in the sizing.

[deejayen]

Thanks very much, John.  That trail calculator is interesting.

I saw a review of an older version of the Club Tour, and it published the head tube angle as 70.2 degrees, and I think the seat tube angle was around 74 degrees.  However, the Mk5 version may have different geometry, and angles also vary between different frame sizes.  What you say about the fork offset for toe clearance on the short frame makes sense.  The trail calculator indicates the bike may have fairly high trail, but that might make it more likely to lean into turns.  However, I don't know what that would feel like on the road, and I suppose you quickly get used to a bike's feel.

The Long frame is 4cm longer than the Short frame, and I've had a drop bar bike which had a top tube 1cm shorter than the Long frame.  I used a 130mm stem on that bike, but perhaps the reach was longer than ideal.  However, I think I could probably make the Long frame work with drop bars without going to a really short stem (maybe a 90mm or 100mm would work).  However, converting to drop bars could be fairly expensive, so the bike would be more feasible if the fitted straight bars proved to be usable.

[mickeg]

I am not familiar with the Club Tour, thus can't comment on that model specifically, my comments are more generic.

Touring bikes often are designed so that they hold a straight line nicely, tight cornering on a touring bike is rarely done.  That said, my touring bikes have always done the type of cornering that I want them to do.

Thorn did not make the Mk II Nomad with a S frame size for drop bars, they suggested that only flat bars were appropriate for that type of bike.  But, I can't imagine wanting to sit upright while pushing into a horrendous headwind, and I often ride in the drops on my other bikes.  So, I wanted to build up the Nomad Mk II as a drop bar bike.  Using the Thorn sizing data, I selected a size frame that had an effective top tube length close to the top tube lengths on my other drop bar bikes.  It has worked out great for me.  Photo attached.  The seatpost is pretty tall because it is a smaller frame size.

My point is that when I decide on a frame size, I focus on effective top tube length.  Then I can make small changes with stem length later.  Also some drop bars have a longer or shorter reach that can also be used to modify sizing to fit better.

[PH]

I get the impression the Club Tour isn't a particularly popular model, but it must have some fans…!

Unlike some of the other Thorn models, there's a lot of competition for these semi-traditional touring bikes. Some of them make the Club Tour look expensive, it isn't hard to spot the reasons why there's a price difference, but it's very much down to the buyer to decide if those are of benefit and represent value.
Touring bike geometry has been well established for half a century or more, designers will tweak it for what they consider best, but only within very narrow margins.  IME all touring bikes turn slow, that's the fundamental difference between touring and Audax bikes.  I don't mind that, but others hate it.  Shorter stem on a longer TT might work, depends how long a stem you end up with, dropping from 120 to 90 might be different to dropping from 100 to 70.  None of it will be unrideable, but it might make it less than optimum.  Do you have a bike you're happy with as a point of reference?

Club Tour style Touring bike V's steel Audax bike - Apart from the handling mentioned above  there's not as much in it as some would believe.  What is it that has swayed you to the tourer?

[deejayen]

Thanks very much for all the info, and the Nomad pic.

It was mainly an availability thing - I checked with Thorn and there are currently no Audax frames, but they have the Long Club Tour.  I don't really have a lot of experience with different styles of bikes, and touring bikes in particular (my bikes tend to be unusual bikes such as fixed wheel, Moultons and recumbents etc). 

I don't have any current bikes I could copy the geometry from.  I do have some notes from previous bikes, so I think the Long would work, as I'm quite adaptable, but it might not be optimal, but that could be the same for any bike I buy.  Also, because it's already built up I'd need to change handlebars, stem, bar tape, brake levers, shifters, cables, and maybe the transmission and brake calipers if changing to drop bars, so it might not be an ideal starting point.  On the other hand, I may find the straight bars with bar ends are fine, especially if I can set the bike up with more of a forward leaning position (for the headwinds Mick mentioned).

Most of my riding is on the open road, so perhaps the stable steering wouldn't be too bad.  However, I don't mind quicker steering bikes such as Bromptons (or my old track bike which could be steered 'from the front').  I had a Kona Jake-The-Snake which, with heavy tyres, always felt a bit ponderous. 

[JohnR]

Have you considered the Spa Cycles Elan? It can handle anything from an audax to medium touring although not the optimum bike for either.

[B cereus]

What size do you require?

I have a MK 4 Club Tour, a (520S) with drop bars. Of all the bikes I own it's probably the most  versatile. Equipped with the MERVC 853 fork, 17mm rims and 28mm semi-slick road tyres it's ideal for day rides or light touring. With the ST 700 fork, which has low rider bosses, and with 19mm rims and fatter tyres its good for unsurfaced tracks and fully loaded touring. Thorn still have a few CT MK 4 frames in stock but as far as I know the MK 5 shares similar geometry but with extra clearance for fatter tyres.

I've never found a problem with the steering I find I adapt to the differences in handling very quickly when I swap between the various bikes that I own. If you're worried and are anywhere near SJS  I would strongly advise that you arrange a test ride.     

[deejayen]

Thanks!  I'm not near either SJS Cycles or Spa, so wouldn't be able to try a bike for size.  It would be a 580L.  Thorn confirmed today that the 580L might not work so well with drop bars, but we've agreed to discuss it further after the Christmas and New Year holidays.