Thorn Nomad MK 3 Weight Distribution

[JohnNomad]

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Hi I am just preparing for a month to six weeks cycling in Europe camping. Today I have packed my pannier bags and hopefully distributed my “stuff” to give a balanced ride.

Front Left Low Loader Pannier Bag 3.5kg
Front Right Low Loader Pannier Bag 3.5kg
Rear Right  Expedition Pannier Rack Bag 4kg
Rear Left Expedition Pannier Rack Bag 5kg
Centre of Expedition Rear Rack 6.5kg
Handle Bar Bag 2kg

Total of 22.5kg

I weigh 78.5kg

Bike weighs unladen 22kg

Total kerbside weight 123kg

Was wondering if this is a reasonable distribution of weight for the Nomad to carry. Interested in your thoughts thanks John



[WorldTourer]

For me, upgrading from a Mk2 Nomad frame to a Mk3 allowed me to say goodbye to front lowrider panniers forever. The Thorn Nomad Mk3 Bikepacking Fork has the triple-screw pattern for Anything cages. That allowed me to redistribute my front weight to two fork bags and a handlebar pack. Handling is just fine with Koga Denham bars, and now I can ride a lot more singletrack and water crossings without worrying about my front bags getting scratched to hell or too wet.

Also, if you want good weight distribution, a frame bag is essential. Some of my absolute heaviest gear goes in the frame bag very near to the bottom bracket.

[martinf]

Was wondering if this is a reasonable distribution of weight for the Nomad to carry.

Seems pretty reasonable for a Nomad.

Broadly similar to my camping load last time I weighed all the kit.

Main differences are that I don't like handlebar bags and that my Raven Tour is a bit lighter than your Nomad.

Front pannier bags (30 litres)                                                  1.5kg
Kit in front pannier bags                                                           6.4kg
Rear pannier bags (43.6 litres)                                                 2.4kg
Kit in rear pannier bags                                                            10.9kg (this is variable as it includes food)
Tent and bungee straps on top of rear rack                             2.3kg
1.5 and 1.0 water bottles (full)                                                 2.65 kg   

Total luggage, including bags                                                    26.15kg
 
Bike weight unladen, with racks, frame lock and bottle cages  19kg

Luggage weight can vary, notably if I need to fill my water bag for a wild camp or if I have to buy food for more than a day (Sundays in some places).

I could save the weight of the front pannier bags and front rack and use bigger rear panniers (tested on local rides with 30 + kg of shopping), but I prefer the handling with front panniers and I also like to organise my kit between the four bags when camping.

Incidentally, my big Back Roller Pro Plus bags (70 litres) are actually a tad lighter than my smaller Bike Packer Plus rear pannier bags (43.6 litres including the add-on pockets)

A Nomad should handle better than my Raven Tour with all the luggage just in rear panniers.

[mickeg]

Looks reasonable to me.  I usually have more weight in the panniers than you have.

I try to put the dense weight down low, lighter density stuff up higher.  thus, I usually have fairly light stuff on the rear rack, but the densest stuff like tools or canned food in the bottom of rear panniers.

Mine is a Nomad Mk II.

[in4]

On 3-4 over nighters I tend to wing it a bit and just use my rear panniers, rack top and bar bag. There’s a degree of convenience in doing so but the trade off in handling and tyre wear is a consideration.
For longer tours I use four panniers plus bar bag. The weight distribution makes for a more comfortable ride. Everything feels more ‘balanced’ The Nomad just soaks it up.

I’m quite mindful of the suggested weight limits for tyres. It’s worth factoring that in when distributing weight, particularly if you’ve enjoyed a few of John’s poutines! 😂

[JohnNomad]

Thanks everyone for the info

[PH]

Looks about right to me, of course it depends how you like it when you go for a test ride, but there's nothing there to stretch the Nomad's capabilities.  Your unladen weight seems a bit higher than mine, though we may be including different things.  Your's and martinf's lists remind me why I resent front panniers, you add a rack and bags weighing probably 2kg to carry 6 - 7kg.  I know it has other benefits, I just get stuck on that ratio.   

[martinf]

Your's and martinf's lists remind me why I resent front panniers, you add a rack and bags weighing probably 2kg to carry 6 - 7kg.

Yes, about 2 kg for the bags and front rack.

The Nomad is designed to handle a heavy rear-only load better than my Raven Tour, so it would be possible to use very big rear panniers and use the top of the rear rack instead of front and rear bags for a lot of the trips where I use front bags.

Example below, 40 litres in rear bags, about 35 litres in a 48 litre rucksack and about 25 litres in front bags, plus 2.5 litres of water bottles.

With a Nomad, I could probably have used 70 litre rear bags and dispensed with the front bags. Not practical on my Raven Tour, the handling with the stuff on the back wasn't very good until I put the front bags on and rearranged loading to have some of the heavier stuff in front.   

I don't usually have that much stuff on tour, this was for a week of fixed base holiday with my wife, when we rode to the holiday location then did walking and cycling on alternate days (hence the rucksack. Also walking boots hidden in the luggage).

[in4]

Just be mindful of your tyres max weight load. EG Marathon Mondial is 130kg. I’m 80kg dripping wet so I’ve 50kg max to play with. That’s not many pies!
Personally, when using just rear panniers and a rack I ride more carefully ie avoid swift turns and sharp braking. My back stays better that wa

[PH]

Just be mindful of your tyres max weight load. EG Marathon Mondial is 130kg. I’m 80kg dripping wet so I’ve 50kg max to play with. That’s not many pies!

I'm pretty sure that's per tyre, not per bike, otherwise even Schwalbe's E-bike cargo tyres would be inadequate for purpose. So, unless you're riding a unicycle, you have 180kg to play with, eat all the pies you want!

[in4]

Absolutely! The figure I quoted was for a single tyre ( as per Schwalbe website ) I guess the weight limitations on your front tyre would be influenced by your forks spec'. Wonder if you would have a total max weight capacity of 260Kgs?  That is a lot of pies and poutine and there is no way I'm testing that out!

[PH]

Wonder if you would have a total max weight capacity of 260Kgs? 

Almost certainly not.  Without luggage your weight distribution is around 60/40.  For simplicity, if it were 100kg for rider and bike, then 70kg of luggage on the back would bring the tyre to it's limit, and keeping the 60/40 ratio would allow 15kg on the front, but that tyre would be nowhere near it's limit (An argument for a lighter tyre on the front).
In reality, there's no need to stick to that 60/40 guideline, many four pannier tourers will exceed it.  But there's no need to be concerned about a touring bike tyre's limit, something else on the bike will give up first, probably the rider.

[mickeg]

...
The Nomad is designed to handle a heavy rear-only load better than my Raven Tour, so it would be possible to use very big rear panniers and use the top of the rear rack instead of front and rear bags for a lot of the trips where I use front bags.
...
With a Nomad, I could probably have used 70 litre rear bags and dispensed with the front bags. Not practical on my Raven Tour, the handling with the stuff on the back wasn't very good until I put the front bags on and rearranged loading to have some of the heavier stuff in front.   
...

I was planning a trip on a rough gravel trail, fitted a 100mm suspension fork to my Nomad Mk II, and tried to set it up for a rear load. 

Bought the Carradry rear panniers for that trip, at that time they claimed to be 56 or 58 liter capacity which they are not, but they still hold a lot more than my Ortlieb 40 liter rear Backrollers.

Bike handled poorly with all the weight on back.  First photo, I had a brick on the rear rack (in paper bag to prevent chaffing on the rack) that weighed about 5 kg to simulate weight of food.  I used a Racktime Addit rack instead of the Tubus Logo EVO that I usually use on that bike, but I do not recall why I switched racks for that trip.

I could have done it with the poor handling, but when we got out there and saw how rough the trail was, we decided to just car camp and do out and back daily rides on the trail.  Skipped our plans to ride several days with our camping gear on the bikes on that trail.

Samples of the trail, second and third photos.  Fourth, photo of bike out there.  I decided after that trip that I needed a Thudbuster seatpost, the cheap telescopic type was worthless.

Although I felt that the handling was poor, quite frankly I think any other steel frame bike would have been worse.  My point is that the Nomad Mk II was probably the best choice for a steel frame bike, but I still think it was not very good with that kind of loading.

[in4]

I guess using a frame bag may have helped distribute weight a little more evenly.
As I think I've shared previously: I find too much weight solely on the rear rack affects the Nomad's performance. Additionally, being quite 'long backed' I'm careful not to ride 'hard' so as to avoid backache at the end of the day.

[mickeg]

I think my Nomad Mk II (first photo) and Sherpa (second photo) both are best with a well balanced weight distribution front and rear.  I often put heavier stuff in the front panniers on those bikes and they handle that very well.

My Lynskey (third photo) which I consider to be my light touring bike with titanium frame and steel fork does not behave well if I have too much weight in the front panniers.  Thus, the front panniers are usually more lightly loaded than with my my other bikes.

Every bike is a bit different.

The Thorn weight ratings for the Nomad Mk II are about 60kg for luggage, Sherpa about 30 or 35kg for luggage.  The Lynskey had no rating, but I suspect it is similar to the Sherpa for an upper limit when you consider handling as a key factor in the limit.