Building up an old bike

[deejayen]

I've seen an old touring bike frame advertised, and have half-thought about buying it.  However, I reckon a build for it could get expensive.  I'm just curious if anyone has done this without having a pile of old components they can transfer, or scouring for old parts.  Does such a project tend to end up being a bottomless pit?

I know very little about the frame in question (I haven't contacted the seller), but it's a handbuilt 531 touring frame, and has 130mm rear spacing, canti studs, and downtube shifter bosses.  I'm not sure about wheel size - probably 700c, but I suppose it could be 27".  It appears to have two pairs of threaded eyelets on the forks (mudguard and rack?) but no braze-ons for a lowrider.

I'm not even sure why I want it!  I suppose I just like old bikes, and have always fancied a traditional touring bike which is comfy, runs smoothly, eats the miles, and can carry a lightweight camping load.  Having said that, I transitioned to recumbents years ago, and have just got a touring-type recumbent on the road and am going to be buying panniers for it.

[mickeg]

I built up most of my bikes from parts. 

But, I am retired, have the spare time available for searching out the parts I want for the best price. 

And I worked in a bike shop years ago, not afraid of getting into a project like that.  I own most of the tools that I need.  The only tools I lack are the ones to press a headset onto a frame or fork, I have paid bike shops to do that.  I do not have a truing stand, but am competent at truing up a wheel in a frame using the brake blocks.

There is a lot to building up a bike.  Example, just the wheels, you have the hubs, spokes (of correct length), nipples, rim tape, lots of things to buy.  And then you need to know how to build the wheels.  You can buy prebuilt wheels, that saves a lot of time.

It often is not a big money saver, but if you have specific ideas on what components you want to have, building it yourself is the best way to accomplish that.  Or, hire someone to build it up from parts, but that gets expensive with the labor costs.

If you buy a used frame, get the frame in hand with a close inspection for making sure it is not bent or otherwise unusable before you spend money on anything else.

I would be surprised if it is 27 inch for tire size, canti brake posts became much more common after the switch to 700c.  That said, if it was 27 inch, I would not buy it, tires are too rare.

If you want to tour on it and want a front rack, there are options for that but they can be expensive.  Or, you might get lucky and find a used fork that has the right axle to fork crown length and right fork rake with enough steerer tube to make it work.

One of my bikes has 130mm dropout spacing in back, I am running a 135mm hub in that frame.  I talked to the manufacturer and they said that it would be no problem, other than dropping the wheel into the frame takes a bit more work to open up the frame a bit so that it fits together.

If the downtube is the vintage diameter where the downtube is the same size as teh top tube and seat tube, that frame might be a bit more flexible than you would want for touring.  Newer touring bikes usually have bigger downtubes for a stiffer frame.

[Danneaux]

I've seen an old touring bike frame advertised, and have half-thought about buying it.  However, I reckon a build for it could get expensive.  I'm just curious if anyone has done this without having a pile of old components they can transfer, or scouring for old parts.  Does such a project tend to end up being a bottomless pit?

I did something similar.

Here is my 2007 MTB to Enduro-Allroad drop handlebar conversion with Before & After photos.

The bike was an ex-fleet rental purchased for USD$113 from a reputable pawn shop and checked with police records. Only the frame came across in the conversion, as the original components were pretty well trashed as I knew from the beginning. I replaced them with spares from my stocks. Drivetrain is 9-sp Deore with Dura-Ace barend shifters and the rims are 36-hole Ryde Andra 30 on 2.0in road slicks which I also use on gravel. SON dynohub for lighting and USB charging. Frame size is "Large" (20in c-t); I normally ride 58-60cm road touring bikes with horizontal top tubes and this fits the same as shown.

The frame is all double-butted cro-mo steel with a massive 45mm OD downtube, 35mm top tube and 19mm seatstays. The brake hoods on my drop handlebars are within 1mm of where they were on the grips with the original riser 'bars. I fitted the bike with a Thorn Sherpa Mk2 fork and uncut steerer. I have two of these forks in different rakes. Both are slightly shorter axle-to-crown than the original resulting in a steeper 74° head angle. One fork -- my favorite - produces 40mm of (relatively low) trail geometry, the other 57mm (neutral). Both are made from Reynolds 531ST tubing and are far more compliant than the original fork.
 
The bike works superbly on gravel, bike-packing, or as a fully loaded tourer with 4 panniers, HB bag and rear rack-top load for longer journeys. I think of it as my "Enduro-Allroad" bike and it is the most all-'round versatile of my bikes. it is not as expedition-focused as my Nomad Mk2 but heavier-duty than my past Sherpa Mk2. It is about 1.8kg heavier than my road-based tourers. I do miss the Rohloff drivetrain most when riding cross-country as I must be mindful of sticks and such that could damage the long-cage rear derailleur.

Dry weight equipped as shown is 36lb/16.3kg. Lots of bottle fitments as required for my desert tours. Inverted top tube frame bag accommodates three 1 liter bottles in the frame, works well, is stable and provides adequate clearance when dismounting. For bikepacking I usually swap the Ortlieb underseat bag for a Carradice Camper Longflap; combined with the Ortlieb Large HB bag I can easily fit my solo tent, sleeping bag and inflatable pad, two spare changes of clothing, rain gear, cook kit with stove, tools, food and other basic necessities (Photo 3).

As for 27in wheels, I agree with George tire selection is now very poor. I was able to salvage a number of my tourers by rebuilding the wheels with 700C rims and new spokes and tires and refitting caliper brakes with longer reach (700C is 4mm smaller in radius than 27in). On a couple with cantilever brakes made in 1984, I had enough reach on the front and was able to mount the pad holders on the reverse (front) side of the arms to achieve the needed lower reach on the rear wheel.

Hoping this might encourage if you're looking for a project and will have parts available if needed (i.e. you live near a bike co-op). Older bikes often have a lot of life left in them and so long as you don't have to buy many new parts, some upgrades can do a lot to modernize and contemporize them and provide a lot of pleasure and happy miles. Disclaimer: Rehabbing an old bike can be a lot of fun and a great learning experience. It can also be a money pit that quickly exceeds the purchase price of the used bike, sometimes several times over. The choice is yours as to how far to go but I've often found one thing leads to another and that's when I am grateful for bulging boxes of spares dating back decades.

Best, Dan.

[deejayen]

Thanks very much!

I'll have to think about it...

I'll also see if I have any parts which could be utilised, and also how I might build it up.

It's helpful to see Dan's before and after shots.  Also, the camping gear is interesting.  I already have a Camper Longflap, and also have that Klymit sleeping mat.  I may even have the same tent - I couldn't see what it is, but I have a Terra Nova Solar Elite in a cupboard somewhere, and yours seems to be of a similar packed size.

I think the frame might be standard 1 1/8" tubing, but it looks like it might be 531ST (possibly beefier stays?). 

I could probably assemble a bike, unless I ran into difficulties, but would buy handbuilt wheels, unless I have a spare set which would fit).  I suppose one risk is that I end up splashing out on more expensive components which end up pushing my costs to more than a decent complete bike.

[PH]

If it's a bike for riding, I think I'd rather start out with a complete one, even if the components are not in good condition, then put some miles in to establish both if I had a use for it and if it was the right bike to fulfil that.  Only then would I start putting money into a restoration, knowing I'd get the value from riding it, you're never going to get the cost back if you sell it.
If it's a project, then the riding might be less important, it's not my thing, but I know several get a kick from bringing bikes back from the dead.  If I were to do it, I think I'd be looking for a special frame to base it on, such bikes have fallen so far from fashion the price between something exceptional and something run of the mill is minimal.  In a recent bike auction, no one was bidding on the common stuff, many of the hopeful sellers had to take their bikes back home.

[Danneaux]

It's helpful to see Dan's before and after shots.  Also, the camping gear is interesting.  I already have a Camper Longflap, and also have that Klymit sleeping mat.  I may even have the same tent - I couldn't see what it is, but I have a Terra Nova Solar Elite in a cupboard somewhere, and yours seems to be of a similar packed size.

Yes! Nearly the same; it is a Terra Nova Laser Competition 1. My other solo tent, a Coleman Exponent Dakota 1 fits as well. It is a generously sized solo tent with full sit-up room and a full-length side entry.

When my dear father passed, I inherited his road tourer (a match to my own favorite road tourer-randonneur bike) and converted/configured it to "gravel bike" use as it accepts 700x38mm tires with mudguards. I've attached a photo of it below as it neared completion. The Carradice Camper Longflap (thanks to longtime member JulK) sits nicely atop the rear rack with the tent under the flap and my full rain kit (jacket, pants, lobster mitts, shoe covers, helmet cover) on the rack just ahead of it for easy reach and to keep wet kit outside the CCL. The bike brand is now long defunct, but used standard 1-1/8in seat and down tubes with a 1in top tube and 1in threaded steerer. It came factory equipped with 27in rims and tires in 1984, so I converted to 700c and dropped the canti brake pad reach as described in my earlier post. It rides like a dream and uses a Thudbuster ST (Short Travel) suspension seatpost.

Good luck and have fun if you wish to take on this project.

Best, Dan.

[in4]

Great share, Dan. Good to see how you’ve got that CLF to sit almost vertically on your rear rack; something I’ve yet to do on my MK2 Nomad. TBH I don’t think it’s possible. Happy travels! 

[deejayen]

Thanks again!

Yes, Dan's is a lovely looking bike.  The Camper Longflap sits well on the rack.  I've just tried something similar with a Pendle behind my recumbent's seat, and with the Pendle's base supported on a rear rack - it's okay, but there's a loop at the front edge of the rack which is poking up into the Pendle and slightly reducing its capacity. 

It'll probably take me a wee while to decide whether or not to go for this particular touring frameset I've seen, and I'll ahve a look around for complete bikes in a similar style.

I think the best riding bike I've ever owned is this old 1950's frame (it was built for a pro racer back in the day, but I can't remember who) which I built into a fixie.  I rode it on my most ambitious rides so far, including some audaxes.  Here it is in one of its touring modes (if the picture will upload):- The saddlebag is on a Bagman support, with an additional drybag strapped to the underside of the Bagman.  I strapped my sleeping mat to my handlebars (before the days of bikepacking!)

[mickeg]

My most recent build was in 2017, a Lynskey Backroad.  I was not looking to build another bike, but I got a great price on a new titanium touring frame.  When that manufacturer got a returned frame from a dealer, instead of putting it back into inventory, they put it on ebay which is how I got it for better than half price.

Photos are from last month, I did a 650 mile (~~1050 km) bike tour on it.

Unusual mix of parts.  I first used the shifters when they were new two decades ago on a different bike.  Rear derailleur is the oldest part on it, from the 1990s, but I like the looks of the old Shimano M739 rear XT derailleurs, upgraded with ball bearing jockey wheels.  Campy road triple crank with two after market chainrings for half step plus granny gearing.  Eight speed Sram 11/32 cassette.  Velocity Dyad rims.  Shimano dynohub (32H), was on a used wheel I bought from a charity.  Cup and cone rear hub with quarter inch ball bearings, XT M756A, 36H.  Recent additions to it were a Redshift suspension seatpost and a Kinekt Suspension stem.

I rode the same bike this past Saturday on a 200k randonneuring event, but without the touring racks and with a smaller handlebar bag.  (Currently have shifter problems on my rando bike, so substituted the Backroad for the event.)

Cost of parts was not even a consideration for my build, I wanted an eccentric mix of components in the drivetrain that virtually nobody else would want.  I have three touring bikes, I consider this my light touring bike.

[JohnR]

650B is the slightly smaller alternative to 700C which can enable fitting slightly wider tyres. The tyre choice isn't as good as 700C but is probably better than 26".