Author Topic: Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone?  (Read 424 times)

zalisfranceso8582

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Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone?
« on: March 29, 2024, 11:51:19 am »
Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone? Let's talk about the pros and cons of adding a kickstand to these Thorn models. While some may argue that a kickstand adds unnecessary weight and can be a hassle while riding, others swear by the convenience it provides when stopping for a quick break or taking photos on the go. What are your thoughts on this controversial topic?
 
[Edited by Dan to remove spam link]
« Last Edit: March 30, 2024, 02:18:27 am by Danneaux »

mickeg

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Re: Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone?
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2024, 06:26:40 pm »
Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone? Let's talk about the pros and cons of adding a kickstand to these Thorn models. While some may argue that a kickstand adds unnecessary weight and can be a hassle while riding, others swear by the convenience it provides when stopping for a quick break or taking photos on the go. What are your thoughts on this controversial topic?
 
Site

I think that Thorn still says that if you need warranty work, if they deem that the kickstand caused it, they will not stand by the warranty.

That said, I use a kickstand on my Sherpa and on my Nomad Mk II.  It is a Greenfield model that clamps onto the chainstay and seatstay near the rear axle.

That has been discussed on this forum before, there is a long thread on that:
https://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=1964.0

But the newest post at that thread is 10 years old, so the Thorn position may have changed since then.

Two photos, attached.

Do so at your own risk.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2024, 06:29:51 pm by mickeg »

WorldTourer

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Re: Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone?
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2024, 08:46:11 pm »
Mick, the post you replied to is almost certainly linkspam generated with ChatGPT or a similar tool. (Sole post by this account, Italian username but two links to a Ukrainian-language content farm, etc.) Just report and move on.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2024, 08:48:08 pm by WorldTourer »

Danneaux

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Re: Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone?
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2024, 11:28:00 pm »
I banned the member for the reasons cited by WorldTourer, but left the post up as it is a topic that arises periodically and it seemed useful to address. George's link in response nicely tied it to earlier discussions; hopefully helpful for those to follow.

Best, Dan.
Thorn Cycles Forum Administrator

mickeg

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Re: Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone?
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2024, 09:31:49 am »
I am not yet used to the concept of electronic devices posting to forums for the sole purpose of wasting my time, thanks for clarifying that such things occur. 

Andre Jute

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Re: Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone?
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2024, 12:15:34 am »
I am not yet used to the concept of electronic devices posting to forums for the sole purpose of wasting my time

It's not your time they want, George, it's your money. Some Chinese sharks on Aliexpress have refined their AI-driven "chat" so as to baffle customers into giving up their claim to a refund. I'll report back when I've kicked them in the goalies at least a million times what I've lost.

Returning to the actual subject of the thread:

If I were a bicycle manufacturer who went to the design cost of making a bike weighing only as much as necessary to make it fit for purpose plus a conservative or even generous margin for safety, I'd be very brassed off if random bicyclists without engineering training -- which lets you out -- started sticking on stands on clamps that could crush or fracture carefully calculated and chosen thin wall tubing.

On the other hand, I think it is pretty stupid to build a touring bike on which a stand isn't standard equipment or an option, but in any event allowed for in the design, among other reasons as a control on random owners' foolishness. It is another example of the all-too common error by bicycle designers -- even good ones -- of not putting their minds in gear, of simply not thinking about which road bike conventions don't belong in touring bikes.

All the same, I would reject the common clamp-type of stand-fixing as simply too likely to cause a problem. It should be clear that I consider this near-universal rejection of bicycle stands among bicycle-makers as a prejudice of old racers, but in the specific case of stands which require clamps to thin-wall steel tubes, I absolutely agree with them that they are too risky in DIY hands.

Instead, I like the tab-type of stand-fixing that ESGE, and presumably others, offer. This consists of a thick, tapped, rectangle of metal soldered or welded under the non-driveside chainstay as near to the axle hanger (or possibly the disc brake brace between the chainstay and the seatstay) as possible, and thus shares the torsional load between two frame tubes. Or even three tubes as on the photo of a mixte touring bike with a 180kg load capacity.

Note that the photographed bike has a disc reinforcement (the perforated half-moon) on only one side of the frame whereas in your photo of your yellow Thorn both sides of the rear triangle are braced, so that, all other elements being equal, the Thorn 4-tube rear end could easily be as strong as the mixte 6-tube design once the axle is bolted in.

ESGE tab-mount stand, mounting detail left, load paths right. If you want to study the arrangement on a sharper picture than this screen dump, there's a PDF at http://coolmainpress.com/AndreJute'sUtopiaKranich.pdf -- just keep scrolling down in it until you see the photos above.

Andyb1

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Re: Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone?
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2024, 06:48:15 pm »
I am afraid that I do not understand why people think they need a stand.  Easy enough to stop where there is something to lean the bike against, or use a piece of wood to prop the bike up if you have to.  Or even lay it down.
Negatives are….weight….noise…..spring failing and the stand dropping….the bike falling over with the stand down (digs into the ground or luggage unbalances it) resulting in damage.
Even on a sandy beach I could find a piece of driftwood to prop the bike up.   A stand would simply have dug into the ground.  See photo.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2024, 06:53:24 pm by Andyb1 »

in4

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Re: Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone?
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2024, 09:47:20 pm »
Great photos of your Nomad, George. I often enjoy zooming in on photos to see what gear people have added or taken away.
I'd not thought of carrying items on top of my front panniers.
I noted where you've located your sinewave.
I was wondering why you've taken your fenders/mudguards off? Perhaps to accomodate larger tyres?

I have a bike stand ( er pletscher?) that came with my old Mk1 Nomad. As I never did any loaded touring with the bike and I was not the original owner I left the stand on. I found it very convenient. Whoever fitted the stand used some old inner tube bits between the frame and the stand clamps.

I've not fitted one to my MK2 Nomad as I've mostly used it for touring with a fair amount of gear on board. Obviously I dont want to void my warranty either! That said I've not missed having a stand. I've always found something to lean my Nomad against or for example, when I've been stealth camping, I've simply taken all my panniers off and laid my bike on the ground.

mickeg

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Re: Kickstand on a Nomad or a Raven anyone?
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2024, 10:25:48 am »
Great photos of your Nomad, George. I often enjoy zooming in on photos to see what gear people have added or taken away.
I'd not thought of carrying items on top of my front panniers.
I noted where you've located your sinewave.
I was wondering why you've taken your fenders/mudguards off? Perhaps to accomodate larger tyres?

I have a bike stand ( er pletscher?) that came with my old Mk1 Nomad. As I never did any loaded touring with the bike and I was not the original owner I left the stand on. I found it very convenient. Whoever fitted the stand used some old inner tube bits between the frame and the stand clamps.

I've not fitted one to my MK2 Nomad as I've mostly used it for touring with a fair amount of gear on board. Obviously I dont want to void my warranty either! That said I've not missed having a stand. I've always found something to lean my Nomad against or for example, when I've been stealth camping, I've simply taken all my panniers off and laid my bike on the ground.

I have a complete set of Ortieb Frontrollers and Backrollers as you could see, on the front there is that convenient strap over the top that is perfect for the task.  And being up front, if something falls off you can see it is missing.  About a year ago my rain pants fell off, I heard something hit the pavement, and could immediately see it was the rain pants.  Since rain gear is one of those things that you can be in a big hurry to get when you need it, that seemed the logical thing to store on top.  But, that strap is not very strong, so do not pull too hard on it.  I had one of those straps break on my Backrollers last year.  I do not have the "before" photo, but the photo attached is the "after" photo after I glued the strap back on a weak piece of fabric that went between two screws under the Ortlieb bar that the hooks are on, more on that below.

I put my Sinewave there on that trip, but it has moved around to different locations over time.  At this time it is on my Randoneuring bike (non-Thorn), second photo.  There it is mounted on the handlebar bag bracket so that it is closer to the handlebar bag, the cord does not have to be as long to plug things in the Sinewave that way.  The USB port faces down so rain water does not accumulate in it.  Second attached photo.

The photos of my Nomad Mk II that you looked at, the first photo was taken in Iceland.  I had to pack my bike in the S&S case for air transport, otherwise the oversize fees would have been $300 USD round trip.  And the fenders do not pack easily, thus they stay home when I pack it for airline travel.  Second photo that you commented on was taken in Canyonlands National Park.  I do not have a mountain bike, but for that trip I bought a suspension fork to fit on my Nomad Mk II so that I could pretend it was a mountain bike.  Third and fourth photos.  With a front suspension fork, it made no sense to have a rear fender on the bike.  Everyone else in the group had full suspension mountain bikes, but I had owned my Nomad for only a year at that time, I wanted to see how it could handle a trip like that so I bought the fork instead of paying for a mountain bike rental.  I was at a clear disadvantage being the only one to not have rear suspension, but it gave me a chance to see how the bike would work on rough terrain.  The frame is heavy, but overall I was pleased with the bike on that trip.  I should point out here for other readers that the Mk II Nomad was designed to use a 100mm suspension fork but the Nomad Mk III is not, so do not try that. 

The two legged center stands, I had one when I was a child on a utility bike, it was quite convenient.  And I have seen some people use them on touring bikes with four panniers and heavy loads.  But I would be fearful of using one that puts one wheel up in the air, as you are putting a lot of weight on the chain stays right behind the bottom bracket.  I think putting a side stand on like on my Nomad Mk II where it is on the part of the frame that is designed to handle the disc brake stress is a better way to do it.  I am not a frame builder, maybe I am wrong on that, but that is my opinion.  I was unaware that Thorn would void a warranty on that until several years after I had installed the stand.  But I have a side stand like that on three different bikes (two Thorns) and it works quite well for me.  I also have it on my randonneuring bike, but that has shorter chainstays and the back of my shoe sometimes nicks the stand when pedaling.

I do not have kickstands on my light touring bike (titanium) or my road bike, at times I wish I did.  A year ago I had my light touring bike leaning against a post, four panniers on the bike, and the bike started to roll and fall over.  I grabbed the Ortlieb rack top bag to try to hold the bike upright, that is when I tore off that strap that went over my Backroller.  I would be fearful of frame damage on that bike being titanium, not steel.