First oil change

[Andyb1]

Just in the process of doing my first Rohloff oil change, on a one year old gearbox, and I am surprised by how black the old oil is compared with the new.   It looks like well used oil from a diesel engine!   Or a graphite oil.  Do they use a black oil with new gearboxes or is this change to blackness usual?
Thanks in advance.

[JohnR]

In my experience the used Rohloff oil looks filthy with the first few flushes having a noticeable metallic glint.

[rafiki]

On all of mine I did the first oil change at 2000km. I recall it was still pretty black even after that distance.

[WorldTourer]

I just did my Rohloff oil change. This is probably about the tenth time. The old oil is black, but it has always been black. So, I wonder if the oil color is even indicative of the degree of dirtiness inside the hub. Could the black color just be due to the admixture of the two different types of oil, i.e. cleaning oil and lubrication oil? Or could the oil be tinted by some of the nylon components inside the hub?

[mickeg]

I agree with the others, it looks quite used. 

I did my first oil change earlier than specified.

Since Rohloff has such an exceptional reputation for long life, I would not worry about how bad it looks.  My point is that if you have any urge to change oil more often than suggested, I would not bother with that.

If you were unaware, earlier on this forum someone noted that Rohloff has reduced their suggested amount of lube oil in oil changes, thus new bottles of lube oil may look surprisingly low on volume, but the cleaning oil volume remains the same as the past.

[Andyb1]

Thanks for the replies, good to know ‘they are all like that’.
I used the new oil volume and will keep to just a yearly oil change.
I did the job over 2 days so any remaining oil could drip out.
For the volume, the oil is not cheap!

[mickeg]

I think the first two oil changes I did, I bought the kits of small bottles, syringe, etc. 

But then I bought the 250ml size bottles several years ago.

Although they say to change it yearly, some years I did not bother to change it if I only did a few hundred miles in a year.  And I have been using 15ml of oil, not 25m.  Thus, I have several more years of supply from those larger bottles.  Most of my miles are on derailleur bikes.  If I do not take a trip with my Nomad, very few miles are ridden in that year.

But unfortunately, if you buy the 250ml bottles now, the lube oil bottle will probably be half empty now.

[Andre Jute]

Could the black color just be due to the admixture of the two different types of oil, i.e. cleaning oil and lubrication oil?

I don't think the extracted oil is blackened by a chemical reaction between the all-seasons running oil and the low-temperature cleaning oil as you posit. During the Chinese pandemic one year I rode less than a 100km because the mask steamed up my spectacles every two seconds. When I changed the oil after many months of not riding the bike, it was, if not clear, so slightly greyish that it was relatively transparent.

What I do think possible is that a reaction between the oil and the aluminium of the hub, plus pressure and a little heat between gears, could be responsible for blackening the oil, or more particularly the microscopic ground-off bits from the gears in the oil. If you've ever operated a car with an aluminium engine block, you'll have seen what I'm talking about. Also, I don't know precisely how much nylon there is in the Rohloff, but when my first front-wheel electric motor, bought as an experiment to learn about building electrified bikes, was trashed after about 3500km, the three nylon gears inside were blackened around the teeth.

I too do Andy's thing, and let the syringe hang down under the Rohloff overnight to extract the maximum amount of dirty oil.

[PH]

Usually there isn't much old oil left in the hub to come out, are you trying to drain it?  I tried once without much success, enough to dirty the tube but none made it to the syringe.  If we're talking about what comes out with the flushing oil, it the bit  left clinging to the parts and the dregs, it won't take much to turn the flushing oil black.  I do a double flush and the second one comes out only slightly cleaner, anyone with deep pockets could see how many flushes it takes before it comes out clear.  When I did the hub on my folder in January it'd only done 800 miles since the last change, it still came out looking dirty.
I was going to say that it's always come out black, which is true, but then I remembered that Rohloff oil was originally black before you put it in.

[mickeg]

...When I did the hub on my folder in January it'd only done 800 miles since the last change, it still came out looking dirty.
I was going to say that it's always come out black, which is true, but then I remembered that Rohloff oil was originally black before you put it in.

My lube oil and cleaning oil are not quite clear, some color but not black.  I have the 250ml bottles, but it looks like now the 250ml lube oil bottle is 125ml instead.  The old stock pair of 250ml bottles must be gone.
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/tools/rohloff-all-seasons-cleaning-oil-speedhub-oil-twin-pack-2-x-250-ml-bottle-for-speedhub-50014-8409/

[PH]

...When I did the hub on my folder in January it'd only done 800 miles since the last change, it still came out looking dirty.
I was going to say that it's always come out black, which is true, but then I remembered that Rohloff oil was originally black before you put it in.

My lube oil and cleaning oil are not quite clear, some color but not black.  I have the 250ml bottles, but it looks like now the 250ml lube oil bottle is 125ml instead.  The old stock pair of 250ml bottles must be gone.
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/tools/rohloff-all-seasons-cleaning-oil-speedhub-oil-twin-pack-2-x-250-ml-bottle-for-speedhub-50014-8409/

Originals looked like this

[martinf]

I have the 250ml bottles, but it looks like now the 250ml lube oil bottle is 125ml instead.  The old stock pair of 250ml bottles must be gone.

At SJS, it's now the same ratio of 1:0.5 for the 3 sets (single oil change, 250/125, and 1 litre/0.5 litre).

With 3 Rohloff-equipped bikes I got the old 1 litre set.

 I use more cleaning oil than lube oil for the Rohloffs, but as I also use the lube oil (but not the cleaning oil) in Sturmey-Archer hubs that more or less evens up consumption.

[mickeg]

...
...
Originals looked like this

I do not think I have seen lube oil that dark when it was new before.  I think I bought my 250ml bottles in 2015 or 2016.  Bought the hub in late winter, 2013.

Mine looks more like the SJS photos.  Their big bottle photo at:
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/tools/rohloff-all-seasons-cleaning-oil-speedhub-oil-twin-pack-2-x-1-litre-bottles-for-speedhub-50014-8406/

[geocycle]

That’s a useful picture.  The original oil was indeed very black.  I was surprised when I got a new batch how much it has changed. At the time I wondered if it had altered in some way during the 15 years it lasted me but the pic from PH confirms that was not the case. My 18 year old hub is now leaking quite a lot and is about to go to Somerset for some TLC.  Just want to see out the worst of February first as the RST is my commuter.

[Matt2matt2002]

That’s a useful picture.  The original oil was indeed very black.  I was surprised when I got a new batch how much it has changed. At the time I wondered if it had altered in some way during the 15 years it lasted me but the pic from PH confirms that was not the case. My 18 year old hub is now leaking quite a lot and is about to go to Somerset for some TLC.  Just want to see out the worst of February first as the RST is my commuter.

Interesting points. Thanks.
My hub is 12+ years old. No leaks yet. Any idea why yours is leaking?
What repairs do you think SJS will carry out?

Matt