Sherpa vs Raven vs Nomad

[Andyb1]

Could someone help clarify the differences between how the Sherpa, Raven and Nomad ride please?    Assuming all have the same flat handlebars, 3 x 9 gearing and 26 inch wheels and tyres.

My feeling is that the Nomad is the more solid world tourer that will carry the kitchen sink in one pannier, a BBQ in the other and a week’s supply of food and water……and despite the weight will ride just as it always does……very steadily and predictably but perhaps lacking sparkle due to how strongly it is built?

The Raven I feel is built slightly lighter so can carry a little less load (28kg is still good) but will have a more sporty feel, feel more responsive and be more fun to ride?

On paper the Sherpa seems has the same load capacity as a Raven but I am not sure how it compares in other ways?  Is the Sherpa an earlier version of the Raven?

The reason I am asking is that I have recently got a MkI Sherpa (I am not sure the exact difference to a MkII?) which with 1 1/4” marathon tyres feels nice and responsive to ride - much better than I was expecting - and little seems to be written about the Sherpa (too old?).

[PH]

All the versions of the Raven were designed for Rohloff.  The Sherpa is a very similar derailleur equivalent.

My feeling is that the Nomad is the more solid world tourer

That's pretty much it, though the differences between Nomad and Raven would depend on which versions of each you were comparing.
The Sherpa probably does get less attention, in the World of derailleur touring bikes it's one of many.  The Nomad, particularly early versions, were as you say a step more towards the expedition end of the scale, a much smaller market.   The Raven, particularly when it launched, pretty much had the UK Rohloff market to itself.  Even now, when far more people know of Rohloff and there's more bike choice, Thorn still retain a large share of that market, when I see Rohloff bike it's more likely to be a Thorn than anything else.
Glad you like the Sherpa, if it suits you, that's as good as it gets.

EDIT - The Sherpa has been around long enough to get some reviews, have you googled it?

[WorldTourer]

The Sherpa is no longer competitive as a long-haul touring bike. It is a 26", 9-speed, rim-brake-only bike. Durable CSS rims are no longer made, the choice of quality long-haul 26" tires is shrinking, and even replacement rim-brake pads or quality (and granny-gear) 9-speed cassettes can be hard to find in some parts of the world now. My ex-wife finds it a nice bike for 3-season commuting, though.

The Sherpa had its day 10+ years ago and there would have been reviews and cyclist blogs about it, but they are probably tough to find since Google has de-ranked content that old.

Even now, when far more people know of Rohloff and there's more bike choice, Thorn still retain a large share of that market, when I see Rohloff bike it's more likely to be a Thorn than anything else.

Not my experience at all. Almost no one out on the road now recognizes the brand of my Nomad Mk3 frame – “Thorn, what’s that?” – unless they are Brits over about the age of 35. I see Rohloffs all the time, but they are in frames from Surly, Tumbleweed, VSF Fahrradmanufaktur, etc.

[PH]

Even now, when far more people know of Rohloff and there's more bike choice, Thorn still retain a large share of that market, when I see Rohloff bike it's more likely to be a Thorn than anything else.

Not my experience at all. Almost no one out on the road now recognizes the brand of my Nomad Mk3 frame – “Thorn, what’s that?” – unless they are Brits over about the age of 35. I see Rohloffs all the time, but they are in frames from Surly, Tumbleweed, VSF Fahrradmanufaktur, etc.

Did you miss the UK reference in the sentence above? You might also have included location in your reply.
Of the six Rohloffs I see out and about locally, four are Thorns, one Van Nicholas and a Surly.  I think in the UK that's about the proportion for all I've seen.  Of those makes you list, I've only seen Surlys, though not included I've seen a few Kogas and a Tout Terrain.

[Andyb1]

Thanks for the replies - so the Sherpa stuck with derailleur gears and a version with Rohloff gears became the Raven.

So what are the differences between the Sherpa MkI,II and III?  Anything significant?

I did find some reviews but they were not really comparative between models, just reports on how much people liked their Sherpas and felt that they were reliable and strong.

I am happy with 26 inch wheels.   I find them more in proportion to the medium frame size I ride and I like the clearances.  Not so happy with rim brakes though.
I think that my Sherpa will be a summer bike as where I live the roads are wet and gritty in winter.  My other bike has discs, Rohloff and chainglider so is better to ride in those conditions.

Edited to add : Having the latest gear does not particularly worry me.  I can do without tubeless tyres and electronic gear changers.   I prefer equipment which is simple and has been well proven, and the Sherpa seems to fit in that category.

[PH]

Thanks for the replies - so the Sherpa stuck with derailleur gears and a version with Rohloff gears became the Raven.

Not quite, the Raven pre-dates the Sherpa by a couple of years.  The chronological order is confusing as around the same time, the UK production stopped and what wasn't already there moved to Taiwan.  Also in the same period the Nomad, which had been derailleur and I think produced in the UK, stopped  being offered, as did some other derailleur frames, EXP, XTC, Brevet... There was a gap before the Nomad re-appeared as a Rohloff frame.

So what are the differences between the Sherpa MkI,II and III?  Anything significant?

have you looked through the catalogue archive?
At some point it changed from being built with Reynolds tubing to being built with Thorn branded tubes, I don't know when that happened.  Although it lost the kudos of the R badge, I suspect the Thorn tubing is at least it's equal and possibly superior.

[Andyb1]

Hi PH, I found the brochures for the Mk I and Mk II Sherpa and as you said the Mk I has Reynolds 525 tubes, the MkII Thorn 969.  The only other difference I could see is an additional set of M5 tapped holes on the Mk II at the rear axle so that the rear mudguard and rack can be mounted independently.

Nothing I could see about the Mk III, although I think it may not have had brackets to carry a pump?

[PH]

Nothing I could see about the Mk III, although I think it may not have had brackets to carry a pump?

Here you go, the answers to the MK3 differences from the designer, via Dan

https://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=3971.msg19700#msg19700

[Andyb1]

Thanks PH - interesting that the new slightly wider forks for the MkIII gained Lawyers Lips, even with rim brakes……

[mickeg]

I have a Sherpa and a Nomad Mk II.  The Sherpa is a very solid bike, I think my Sherpa is a Mk II, not Reynolds and has a pump peg.

The weight capacity for luggage (excluding weight of rider) for the Sherpa is about half of the capacity on the Nomad Mk II.  But that is still a good heavy load.  I can't comment on the Mk III Nomad, mine is a Mk II. 

I think the suggestion of similarities between Raven (Rohloff only) to Sherpa (derailleur) is a good one, but the Raven came in a few different versions, Raven Tour, etc.

[martinf]

I think the suggestion of similarities between Raven (Rohloff only) to Sherpa (derailleur) is a good one, but the Raven came in a few different versions, Raven Tour, etc.

Raven Tour is older than Raven. It can carry a heavy camping load, but has less luggage capacity than the original Nomad for Rohloff and doesn't take quite such wide tyres, so not so capable for expedition use.

There was also the Raven Sport Tour, a lighter, more sporty frame that IMO resembles a 26" wheel Mercury.

The Raven was introduced to replace both Raven Tour and Raven Sport Tour by using different fork options and choosing different builds - a light build Raven to replace Raven Sport Tour and a heavy build to replace Raven Tour, although a heavy build Raven Tour still has slightly more luggage capacity than the Raven.

More recently, for the Rohloff equipped Thorns, the Raven seems to have been replaced by the Nomad Mk3 (heavier end of the range) or the Mercury (lighter end of the range).

The next step seems to be merging the Rohloff-specific and derailleur specific frames.