New Oil Change Info ???

[Thomas777]

I was looking  at the Rohloff site and came across some information that the amount of oil used in an oil change  is now 50% less. Same amount of "cleaning "fluid.
Is anyone  aware  of this?

[WorldTourer]

Here is a link to Rohloff’s news item. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. But if the oil volume is lower now, I’m sure some people are going to be even more frantic about precious oil sweating from the hub at the QR, even though Rohloff has said this is not a cause for concern.

[Tiberius]

I was looking  at the Rohloff site and came across some information that the amount of oil used in an oil change  is now 50% less. Same amount of "cleaning "fluid.
Is anyone  aware  of this?

Well I didn't know about it. Many thanks for letting us know.

[PH]

That's interesting, I wonder why now? 
I can't work out exactly how many oil changes I've done, 40ish, I think I only did the first two with 25ml.  Though I've been double flushing, adding 25ml and removing 10.
The new Rohloff method leaves a higher percentage of cleaning oil to hub oil than the above, so it's interesting that Rohloff don't consider that important.  It's probably all overkill, periodically flushed and parts coated in new oil will be a good thing, but if you can keep moisture out and not let it run dry it's probably be fine for years.  OTOH an annual oil change is such a minor task, there's little reason not too.
I thought one of Rohloff's arguments for not using less oil, has been that it takes the hub noisier, with less oil to dampen the sound, I don't think I could ever tell the difference.
 

[UKTony]

“SPEEDHUB Oil set article numbers will be amended to show this revised oil volume, as a change in the running series and as such, should start to be noticed in shops as of October 2023.”

One hopes that a commensurate price reduction will be noticed as well and this won’t become a case of shrinkflation!

[PH]

One hopes that a commensurate price reduction will be noticed as well and this won’t become a case of shrinkflation!

I wouldn't expect much, packaging, distribution, retailer costs and profit margins will remain the same.  If they passed on the full savings from reducing the fluid by 25% I doubt it would reduce the retail price by 10%, probably considerably less.
The Andy Blance method uses 25ml of each, I think I have enough oil for three years, not sure what I'll do after that.

[Andre Jute]

I was looking  at the Rohloff site and came across some information that the amount of oil used in an oil change  is now 50% less. Same amount of "cleaning "fluid.
Is anyone  aware  of this?

Here is a link to Rohloff’s news item.

Thanks for the heads-up Thomas, and for the link, World Tourer.

Some of us have long since been using more realistic oil fills, see for instance "Power-servicing your Rohloff" at
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=13327.msg100044#msg100044

And I've for years been saying that Herr Rohloff's ratings for his gearbox (torque capability and oil service amounts are just two extremely striking examples) are grossly over-conservative. Even among the well-known cover-your-assery of German engineers, Herr Rohloff was a standout ultra-conservative. But, of course, that's how tourers like it: it surely plays a part in the longevity of his gearbox.

[Tiberius]

That's interesting, I wonder why now?

Isn't it and I wondered the same.

My OPINION (for that is all it is) is that this is related to warranty claims. Not warranty claims on the Rohloff hubs as such, but warranty claims on high end ebikes, those which incorporate a Rohloff hub.

I know that I have raised this issue before and I'm sorry for sounding like a broken record, but this change to the official guidance, re the amount of oil required in the hub, gives my OPINION traction.

Most of us here are here because we are cyclists who wanted a super reliable, robust, transmission system and the Rohloff fitted the bill. We have learned that it's common knowledge that they leak/mist/weep, this has never been a real issue as bikes are oily things anyway, we are used to getting our hands dirty, a wipe over with a rag now and again wasn't a problem. However, the type of person who buys a Thorn/Rohloff is likely to be very different to the person who buys a (say) upwards of £7,000 Riese & Muller ebike. An ebike with belt drive,Bosch electrics,a Rohloff hub with electronic gear changing plus DISC BRAKES. This sort of bike is a luxury item and tends to be bought by people who wouldn't usually buy a non ebike - I'm sure that we all know them?

The luxury ebike buyer buys from a main dealer and is most likely to have it serviced by that dealer. Their expectations are very different to ours. When they see their expensive ebike dripping oil they don't wipe it over with a rag, it's back to that main dealer and they expect it to be fixed - A warranty claim. A cost to R&M and/or Rohloff. Rohloff have had to address this problem because it's far more of a problem than it would initially appear. The biggest issue on Rohloff ebikes with leaking hubs is that the hub leaks directly onto the disc brake rotor with a fairly obvious outcome - no rear brake. This is exactly what happened to my bike and I know that I'm not alone.

So, we have a luxury ebike, with a gear system that is known to leak and it's known that that leak can create a serious safety issue. Now imagine - Accident - Insurance claim - Engineers report - Lawyers. You get the picture.

I'm not suggesting that Rohloff are recommending anything that would damage their hubs. Rohloff (and us) know that their hubs can run faultlessly with far less than 25ml of oil in them. I can even see a 'service life' being adopted on the hub oil seals (Simmerings) one day, particularly if Rohloff don't get away with this less in/less out strategy.   

The bottom line. Companies selling high end ebikes, with Rohloff transmissions, HAVE to address this COMMON KNOWLEDGE issue. These hubs are known to leak oil onto the disc brake rotor hendering the rear brake useless.



 

 

[WorldTourer]

The biggest issue on Rohloff ebikes with leaking hubs is that the hub leaks directly onto the disc brake rotor with a fairly obvious outcome - no rear brake. This is exactly what happened to my bike and I know that I'm not alone.

Surprised to hear that this has happened to you. I've been running disc brakes for the last 40,000 km, and while my Rohloff leaks that little bit of oil, the oil stays around the axle area, it has never reached the rotor, let alone affected my stopping power.

[JohnR]

This might explain why SJS don't have any Rohloff hub oil in stock - perhaps Rohloff had run out of the old kits. The website says new stock expected on 20/01/24 https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/search/?term=rohloff%20oil . However, other places do still the oil in stock for those needing to do an oil change in the near future. It would be useful if we could buy separate bottles of flushing oil so that we can apply the change when using up old stock.

I also note that the new Rohloff workshop oil change kits include the appropriate number of new drain screws. I didn't receive extra screws with the pairs of 1/4 litre bottles I've bought previously so I'm still on the original screw (with a hint of new threadlock). If those drain screws in the kits are priced similarly to the individual screws then the kits will become much more expensive than previously.

[Tiberius]

The biggest issue on Rohloff ebikes with leaking hubs is that the hub leaks directly onto the disc brake rotor with a fairly obvious outcome - no rear brake. This is exactly what happened to my bike and I know that I'm not alone.

Surprised to hear that this has happened to you. I've been running disc brakes for the last 40,000 km, and while my Rohloff leaks that little bit of oil, the oil stays around the axle area, it has never reached the rotor, let alone affected my stopping power.

Yeah - Which makes me wonder why some hubs leak and some don't? I'm old school and tend to look after things. Yearly oil change. Usually the Thorn video way, but the last one (April) was the Andy Blanc/PH way. I would have to look up the mileage, I'm not at home at the moment.

Irrespective of your experience I think that my point stands. It's COMMON KNOWLEDGE that Rohloff hubs leak and I believe it's only a matter of time before Rohloff find themselves in deep trouble. They have entered into a market which will not live with this sort of 'defect'. A market occupied by people who expect a £7,000 ebike to hang onto it's oil - I don't blame them.

I sincerely hope that your leak continues to avoid the rotor. Please pop back and let us know if/when it doesn't.

[PH]

Irrespective of your experience I think that my point stands. It's COMMON KNOWLEDGE that Rohloff hubs leak and I believe it's only a matter of time before Rohloff find themselves in deep trouble. They have entered into a market which will not live with this sort of 'defect'. A market occupied by people who expect a £7,000 ebike to hang onto it's oil - I don't blame them.

Yes, it comes up frequently on other groups I frequent, mainly on facebook, people are incredulous when they're told it's "normal".  My nutted axle hub doesn't leak at all, I don't know if that's luck, or a design difference. My oldest hub, 2004 though only in innards are original, leaks pretty bad, though mostly overnight after a long ride.  I'm careful to store it leaning away from the rotor and wipe it off in the morning, I've avoided contamination on that so far, but it is a potential problem.  I did get oil on the rotor on my folder,  though that was in transit and I cleaned it off before re-assembling, that bike might end up with a V brake at the back.

[mickeg]

I was looking  at the Rohloff site and came across some information that the amount of oil used in an oil change  is now 50% less. Same amount of "cleaning "fluid.
Is anyone  aware  of this?

Thank you very much for posting.  Was not aware.

I made this post in a different thread several years ago, there have also been suggestions for 8ml which I chose not to follow:
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=11786.msg85769#msg85769

I still have many years of oil change quantity remaining since I bought some big bottles.  When I get to the point where I have run out of cleaning oil and still have too much lube oil, I will feel lucky that I managed to get that old while still riding a bike.  At that point I will have more things to worry about.  Maybe at that point, use excess lube oil as cleaning oil?

[rafiki]

  Maybe at that point, use excess lube oil as cleaning oil?

I seem to remember analyses of lube and cleaninig oils were posted here some time ago and the cleaning oil was shown to be just lube oil + white spirit.

[PH]

  Maybe at that point, use excess lube oil as cleaning oil?

I seem to remember analyses of lube and cleaninig oils were posted here some time ago and the cleaning oil was shown to be just lube oil + white spirit.

I remember reading that as well, but also the way those with more expertise than I dismissed it.  Partly because the oil comparison was based on it's properties rather than the composition, so there was no testing of possible reactions.  Then for the thinner they's used the generic term White Spirit which isn't a uniform liquid.  OK, seems like a small risk, but then again the annual cost of an oil change is IMO not significant enough to be worth taking any risks with.