Nomad Exp renovation

[samuelellis]

Hi everyone, I'm new to the cult having just purchased an old. Nomad Exp which I haven't even laid hands on it as yet having purchased it unseen off Gumtree. It looks a little tired but there's a reasonable amount /some money available for a renovation. I wondered if anyone had any tips as to what to do? I'm already assuming that I'm going to need a couple of new chainrings / chain / cassette; and I'll obviously look at the headset bearings and BB (the wheels again I'll have to assess on arrival - how desirable is a dynamo?).

Any thoughts very much appreciated.

[PH]

Congratulations and welcome, look forward to the photos. The EXP was always a bit special, I think they were always UK hand built frames.  The full on expedition model, do you have an intended purpose for it?
For me, when I buy a secondhand bike, I try and spend as little as possible to get it usable for a few hundred miles.  Not only am I then sure the bike suits me before spending money I'll never get back, but also I'll know if there's any changes to make when I do start upgrading.
Dynamo, I assume you mean hub dynamo? Depends what use you have for it, nothing beats the convenience of having lights whenever you need them, but if that need is always predictable it's easily satisfied with battery lights. The cost is also dependent on whether you need a new wheel, it's quite a chunk if you don't, but a much more reasonable upgrade if you do.
Have fun.

[mickeg]

The best bike for you is the bike that fits the best.

So, the first changes you might want to make is anything that is needed to improve fit.  For most people, first item is a different stem to change the handlebar location.  Saddle change is sometimes a priority.  If you already have a bike that has a perfect fit, that makes it easy to try to reproduce the geometry with some measurements.  Once you get the bike to fit really well, then you will get some ideas on where to spend some more money.

[in4]

Have a look under the bottom bracket for some letters and numbers re size. Might have an LA there.

[steve216c]

Welcome to the forum and congratulations on your purchase.

You don’t need a Dynamo. I ran on battery lights for years which often meant carrying spare batteries just in case. And then I tried a hub Dynamo paired with LED lamps and I was blown away by the negligible effort needed to reliably power your lights. Because the effort is for me indiscernible I opt for the ‚be safe be seen‘ approach and ride day and night lights on. I truly believe this must have prevented accidents as drivers are more aware of the presence of a lit cyclist than one without lights. Additionally, the dynamo lamps are not removable without tools, so you don’t need to take your lights off when leaving the bike locked unattended. Another plus over battery lights which are quick to steal in most cases.

I’ve just fitted a used Shimano hub-nx32 to a 2008 Dawes Super Galaxy and fitted  Trelock front LED and B&M rear LED lights all still working after 20,000+km of daily use from one of my other bikes. I rode at almost 50km/h on an unlit road last week and am still impressed on what a reliable and well lit combination that made even with aged components.

You could invest in SON, but a sensible Shimano is not expensive. Even their basic models are tolerable . With a Hermanns MR8 front light, a well priced but strong front light, you could buy new and have affordable and good always ready lights for years to come.

I’m certain that most of the forum users who have a hub dynamo would probably agree that hub dynamos are well worth upgrading to and would not wish to go back to battery lamps.

[martinf]

how desirable is a dynamo?.

Depends on how you use the bike.

For many years I used battery lamps and rechargeable batteries as they gave more powerful lighting than dynamo lamps. But it was always a minor nuisance making sure thay were properly charged.

An advantage of using battery lamps is that you only need one set (but several mounting brackets) if you have several bikes, another is that the front lamp can be used as a torch - I use my B&M Ixon for camping, shrimping and nocturnal amphibian surveys.

Disadvantages are the need to plan recharging, the need for spare batteries on long tours involving some night riding, and greater vulnerability to theft, breakage or water damage.

When bright LED dynamo lamps became available I gradually converted nearly all the family bikes to hub dynamos, generally with a B&M Cyo front lamp and one or two B&M rear lamps on each bike (mudguard mounted Secula on all large-wheel bikes and Line Plus on bikes fitted with a rear rack and two of the family Bromptons).

With an additional Cateye LD1100 rear lamp powered by rechargeable AA batteries for extra lateral visibility. This lamp, which is no longer made, is visible though at least 180° if not obscured by clothing or luggage and the relatively large batteries last a long time between charges. I don't know if there is a currently available equivalent.

The one exception is my lightweight Brompton folding bike, this has a B&M Ixon front lamp powered by rechargeable AA batteries and just the Cateye LD1100 rear lamp. When folding the bike I remove both lamps and put them in the front luggage bag, doing this reduces the bike weight and increases the bag weight, which makes carrying easier (better weight distribution between folded bike in one hand and bag in the other). 

Although more expensive, hub dynamo lighting has the advantage that you can leave the lamps on permanently (like motorcyclists do) without having to worry about batteries.

In my opinion, this makes it easier for vehicle drivers to notice a bicycle. With bright LED front lamps I think they are less likely to pull out from side junctions into my path.

[mickeg]

...
I’m certain that most of the forum users who have a hub dynamo would probably agree that hub dynamos are well worth upgrading to and would not wish to go back to battery lamps.

I think it depends on the use and how often you are able to plug in to charge batteries.

I rarely ride when lights are necessary.  But if you are riding in the dark a couple times a week, I would immediately get one.

In daytime I often have a taillight flasher on, but they are battery powered.  Dyno powered taillights are constant on, they do not flash.  Even my bikes with dyno powered lights, I still use a battery powered flasher on back.

But for touring, if you are touring for 3, 4, or 5 days just invest in a good powerbank or two.  But when out over a week without access to a place to plug in, to charge batteries you are relying either on solar chargers or a dynohub.

I bought my first dynohub in 2014, primarily for battery charging when touring, and now I have several.

But, once I had a dynohub on the bike, then I bought the lights too.

My perspective on dynohubs is different than most, I built up most of my bikes from parts.  Thus, the dynohub cost was the cost of the hub, minus the cost of the non-dynohub that I would otherwise have bought.  But most people that might consider a dynohub are looking at the cost of a complete wheel, since once you are buying a new dynohub, the spokes and nipples, and a wheel building fee, you might as well buy a new rim while you are at it.  In other words, for most people, a dynohub becomes an expensive item, where for me, I only consider it when I am going to build up a wheel, and then it is part of the decision.

I think the B&M IQ-XS is a good headlight, there are two versions, I have the aluminum housing version and like it a lot, have two of them.  Not the most expensive, and not the cheapest. 

[martinf]

You could invest in SON, but a sensible Shimano is not expensive. Even their basic models are tolerable.

My first hub dynamos were SON.

But later on I used mid-range Shimano models such as the DH-3N72 (now significantly more expensive than they were in the past), which have been just as reliable so far and with no noticeable difference in performance, just a bit heavier, not really an issue on a utility or touring bike.

I have avoided the basic Shimano models because they are supposed to have greater drag and the bearings are said to be less well protected against water entry, which is a consideration for all-weather use near the Atlantic coast.

[Andre Jute]

An additional consideration not so far mentioned is how the type of riding you do influences the choice of the best dynamo for you. For instance, if you're a commuter or you go shopping for your dinner after dark, what you want is instant visibility. There is no doubt in my mind that for this purpose Shimano's better hub dynamos are superior to the SON. The SON is optimised for riding at 15kph, between 9 and 10mph, which is about where it reaches maximum output. All Shimano dynamos on my bikes come up to full power faster than my SON. You're thus more visible sooner when it counts most. It makes no difference to me as I'm not a commuter and I live in a small town with the country lanes I ride a minute or two away in all directions, but it is easy to see it mattering in stop-start urban peak-time traffic.

The all-time champion of maximum current in the shortest period is a custom dynamo Shimano designed for their Smover gruppo, in which the dynamo charges a fully automatic electronic gearbox shift and active suspension plus the front and rear lamps including the control electronics for all them. None of this stuff would work without juice, all of this stuff started working within a pace or two because in addition to all the strictly operational requirements the dynamo also charged a capacitor (Shimano rather carelessly for an engineering firm called it a "battery") to operate the stand-lights and allow faster operation of the electronic controls from standstill. This is quite possibly the best dynamo I own, but I don't know that any are available new because the gruppo was never sold to DIYers, only to OEMs, and secondhand ones are (presumably -- I've never actually seen one advertised) all from bikes with the full auto Di2 made by European bicycle makes with this gruppo or part of it, like Gazelle's Saphir. The system on my bike is more fully described at http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGsmover.html
This sort of expertise in the design department works through into the design of newer dynamos, even if not specifically demanded in the specification.

A point Martin makes about water ingress protection is important if you're one of those chaps who train come hell or high water, or if you ride through streams, or live in a place where it rains a lot. If I remember correctly, the original selling point justifying the price of Shimano's long-lasting 3N72 (back when it was less than half the price of a SON) was "Ultegra level seals".

So yes, for a bike that will last like a Thorn, a SON is a no-brainer, but if you are prepared to do some homework about the Shimano range of dynamos, you can make a meaningful saving on a dynamo not significantly inferior and in some ways actually superior to the SON.

Note also that if you're fitting an Edelux lamp, made by the makers of the SON on B&M optics, that the Edelux and the SON are optimised together, in my opinion a negative because the optimisation is for fast work, not everyday riding. In any event, if you have Edelux money, you can also afford a SON even if you don't need it!

Good luck with your new bike.

[PH]

If we're now asking which dynamo, this excellent resource will help decide which best suits your needs and budget, with loads of testing and data:
https://www.cyclingabout.com/category/equipment/bike-equipment/dynamo/

The big question to ask first would be if it's just for illumination or whether you wish to charge from it. If it's just for lights, my three hubs, SP, SON and Shimano, all illuminate my lights fine from around 8mph, I really can't notice the difference above that speed and am not bothered below it. For charging, the important factors are resistance and efficiency, from the link above you'll see there are large differences which you will notice.

[Andyb1]

I have also recently bought a secondhand Thorn - an early Sherpa. 
Thorn design seems good and they have always used good quality components - Deore on this bike.

BUT:
- 1. These bikes get used and sometimes get used hard
- 2. Both your Nomad and my Sherpa are 30? years old and could have had multiple owners with varying degrees of mechanical ability.

My experience if it helps:

The middle and large chainwheels were worn and are not available new.   It did not seem worth fitting secondhand parts and as I had a new Strong and Light chainset on the shelf I used that.  Unfortunately that moved the chainline inwards and the front mech would not change to the new small chainwheel…..so I replaced the BB with one I had which is slightly longer.   The original BB did not feel perfect once removed, so nothing lost there.  The rest of the transmission looked like it was new.

Steering head bearings - the lower race had somehow lost a few bearings so had play. £12 for a replacement.

Brakes - not the best, but the pads are shorter than on other V brakes I have, so the pads will soon be replaced by longer ones.

Handlebars - the ones that came with it were too narrow to take ergon bar ends - luckily a set of Thorn touring bars came up on ebay.

Seat - awful - found a near new B17 for £35 on ebay.

Rack - changed for one that will take my panniers.

Otherwise all is OK - frame straight and rust and dint free with good paint, wheels spin freely and cables not rusting.
And I now know the bike a lot better than if I had bought one that did not need a little work.