Author Topic: Is It Time to Ban Electric Vehicles -- Including e-Bikes?  (Read 2568 times)

Andre Jute

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Is It Time to Ban Electric Vehicles -- Including e-Bikes?
« on: August 15, 2023, 12:00:42 pm »
Recent events of li-ion batteries in cars and bikes mysteriously catching fire and killing people raise the question: Is It Time to Ban Electric Vehicles -- Including e-Bikes?

It'll be inconvenient. to say the least, if li-ion batteries are banned as a health hazard, among other reasons because there is no instantly available alternative (storage capacity per kilogram) ready for mass-marketing.

https://townhall.com/columnists/stephenmoore/2023/08/15/is-it-time-to-ban-electric-vehicles-n2627008

Andre Jute
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« Last Edit: August 20, 2023, 03:21:48 pm by Andre Jute »

flocsy

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Re: Is It Time to Ban Electric Vehicles -- Including e-Bikes?
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2023, 08:15:50 pm »
If you ban electric vehicles, then you more or less kill 2 industries: vehicles and batteries. If instead you ban Li-ion batteries, then you give a big hit to both but also a boost to innovation, and at the end both industries and consumers might come out of it better than now.

JohnR

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Re: Is It Time to Ban Electric Vehicles -- Including e-Bikes?
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2023, 08:46:46 am »
Lithium is a potentially hazardous chemical, but so is petrol. What proportion of the fires occur during charging? I suspect that it's almost all, which highlights the need for more care during this process which needs appropriate monitoring to be built into any batteries being charged to detect any heat (and stop/reduce the charging)well before a fire starts. I'm less worried about car fires than about the house fires caused by e-bikes and e-scooters during charging. I haven't seen any published data about the brands most vulnerable to fires but suspect they are at the cheap end of the market where corners tend to be cut to keep the price down.

There was a time when there were reports of notebook computers and mobile phones with lithium batteries catching fire, usually when being charged. We didn't abandon those products. My first notebook with a lithium battery weighed about the same as the nickel battery for the computer it replaced and also ran for twice as long on battery power.

PH

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Re: Is It Time to Ban Electric Vehicles -- Including e-Bikes?
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2023, 01:14:17 pm »
I'll go against convention and shoot the messenger.  Have a look at the source and ask yourself if you think it was published without bias.  I consider it a simple piece of anti green nonsense.
There is no case for banning EV's or batteries, there ought to be better regulation and control. There is already plenty of research being done to improve safety.

energyman

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Re: Is It Time to Ban Electric Vehicles -- Including e-Bikes?
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2023, 02:46:18 pm »
No don't ban them just regulate the standards of manufacture to stop importation of poorly made units.
After all petrol is highly explosive and the instances of explosions is rare.
I only found out the other day that the paint around a car's filler point is antistatic.

spoof

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Re: Is It Time to Ban Electric Vehicles -- Including e-Bikes?
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2023, 11:15:21 pm »
The EU recently voted in favour of new laws involving consumer goods with built in lithium batteries in an effort to make the industry more sustainable. To be brought into effect in three years time. This means a return to smartphones with actual user replaceable li-ion batteries once again, something which will be new to the likes of tech giant Apple. A huge positive in my opinion. This will likely apply to the cycle gizmos like Garmin/Wahoo GPS computers and other stuff as well.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20230609IPR96210/making-batteries-more-sustainable-more-durable-and-better-performing
« Last Edit: August 16, 2023, 11:18:33 pm by spoof »

Andre Jute

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Re: Is It Time to Ban Electric Vehicles -- Including e-Bikes?
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2023, 12:09:20 pm »
Uh-huh. The battery in an iPhone is actually replaceable, but Apple never intended you to do it. You need steady hands or you'll bollox the iPhone. You can get instructions on the net. After twice paying a local repair shop to fit batteries out of China that lasted less than a month, I got a good French-made battery from seller youtech20 on Ebay, with the necessary tools included, and my son did the job in ten minutes. It is however a very fiddly job, perhaps the fiddliest part being glueing the screen back on. This is an iPhone SE from 1916 [EDIT 2016 -- fangs In4], so the original battery lasted a not-unreasonable six years, and the battery in an iPhone 4S has lasted well over a decade. (I like the aluminium-framed iPhones because they're sturdy enough for bicycle use, whereas I trash an Android plastic phone in less than two years of intermittent use.)

About banning lithium-ion batteries, I'm receptive to the argument that petrol is dangerous and we've tamed it by regulation.

About house fires cause by incompetently designed controllers in chargers, and users' careless lack of attention, from below the middle of the market upwards, batteries and chargers come with control circuitry with CE markings, and the really cheap stuff isn't let into Europe for lack of type approvals.

It is anyway good practice to charge li-ion batteries only in rooms where you are, or possibly when surrounded by fire alarms though I haven't tried that.

Yesterday I routinely charged two vacuums that live in my study and studio and crawl the floor, two phones, two iPads, one further lightweight pad for reading on, one 36V bicycle battery, one li-ion torch battery (also for my bike), six ni-cad AAs, four ditto AAAs,  camera batteries, a further two heavy duty AAs for a small movie camera for my bike, a portable lightbox, a portable small daylight lamp to clip to my easel for when I paint outside in shadow or dusk, a set of Bluetooth earphones, several small boxes of power reserves, and no doubt some that I've forgotten. If li-ion batteries are banned, and consequently I have to give up any or all of the equipment powered by these batteries, life would become very inconvenient.

« Last Edit: August 17, 2023, 05:00:57 pm by Andre Jute »

in4

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Re: Is It Time to Ban Electric Vehicles -- Including e-Bikes?
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2023, 03:08:30 pm »
1916 eh Andre. 😉 Where is the slot for the sixpence please?

Andre Jute

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Re: Is It Time to Ban Electric Vehicles -- Including e-Bikes?
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2023, 05:07:15 pm »
1916 eh Andre. 😉 Where is the slot for the sixpence please?

Duh! :o

PH

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Re: Is It Time to Ban Electric Vehicles -- Including e-Bikes?
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2023, 04:08:23 pm »
Here's a more balanced article:
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/products/london-fire-brigade-called-to-an-e-bike-battery-fire-every-other-day

The main culprits seem to be cheap E-scooter batteries and universal chargers.  The nature of such vehicles puts the battery in a more vulnerable position, and their compact size increases the likelihood of them being charged in inappropriate places.

Even so, it needs putting into perspective, around 300 of the 30,000 household fires last year were caused by batteries, with an estimated 8 deaths. If we want to start banning things on the basis of harmfulness, we could start with driving, it causes more deaths than all household fires.  Then we should all eat salad or takeaways as cooking causes a third of household fires, then maybe use the laundrette as washing machines are also a major cause.
I was once evacuated when a neighbors house was ablaze (OK a bit of poetic license, but there was some smoke coming out the window!) the cause was the Christmas lights, lets ban Christmas!

Andre Jute

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Re: Is It Time to Ban Electric Vehicles -- Including e-Bikes?
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2023, 06:52:20 pm »
Have a look at the source and ask yourself if you think it was published without bias.  I consider it a simple piece of anti green nonsense.
Here's a more balanced article:
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/products/london-fire-brigade-called-to-an-e-bike-battery-fire-every-other-day

Really? More balanced?

I have news for you, Paul.

1. Townhall is, by its very nature, more balanced than any cycling magazine I've ever seen. Townhall's articles come from a syndication service which represents a huge number of conservationists. They often print contradictory articles not just in the same week but on the same day, cheek by jowl. And they quote a swathe of media from the whole political spectrum at enough length to give one a good idea of what everyone else thinks.

2. Why do you think cyclists would want a "balanced" cycling magazine? Personally, I want rip-roaring commitment to safe roads for cyclists from any cycling magazine which wants to sell me their advertisers' products, for instance instructional articles about turning a soccer mom's impertinent Range Rover into an insurance write-off with only your U-lock: "An Abus Granit 54X in 300mm is an outstanding 3-pound hammer!" Your pet cycling magazine can have the idea free of charge, if they dare.

3. And it won't do any harm for the credibility of a cycling magazine which wants to be taken seriously for their lack of "bias" to stand up to cycling wreckers of infinite self-entitlement, like these Californian mountain bikers who railroaded a harmless elderly environmentalist by perjury under oath in court -- for merely objecting to them "shredding" a beauty spot: https://web.archive.org/web/20150510053205/http://coolmainpress.com/ajwriting/archives/993


PH

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Re: Is It Time to Ban Electric Vehicles -- Including e-Bikes?
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2023, 10:16:10 pm »
Townhall is, by its very nature, more balanced than any cycling magazine I've ever seen.

Really?
From the bottom of your linked article
Editors Note: Support Townhall so we can keep telling the truth about the radical climate alarmists' agenda.

Maybe I'm just a radical climate alarmist, that doesn't look to me like an honest interest in exploring all aspects of a debate. 

PH

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Re: Is It Time to Ban Electric Vehicles -- Including e-Bikes?
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2023, 06:09:38 pm »
Published a couple of days ago on the Gov.UK website, who may or may not be a more reliable source than Townhall  ;)
Quote
The Office for Product Safety and Standards (OPSS) has today published information for consumers to raise awareness around the safe purchasing, use and charging of e-bikes and e-scooters.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/opss-publishes-consumer-information-on-e-bike-and-e-scooter-battery-safety#:~:text=The%20Office%20for%20Product%20Safety,scooters%2C%20including%20in%20conversion%20kits