Author Topic: MK2 Nomad/Perspective  (Read 4592 times)

jul

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Re: MK2 Nomad/Perspective
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2023, 10:13:59 pm »
I love my Nomad, it made me dream and still does today.

Thanks to him i fell in love with cycling.

With this cycling experience, i realize that in the future, i will have to replace it with a lighter one.

20 kg dry is simply to much and sometimes i hate it for that. I dream of a bicycle with the same geometry of frame than the mk2, same position, same robustness characteristic but with 5 to 8 kg less !

Maybe the titane could do me this favor.

While waiting for his remplacement, i'll continue to ride with it because it is also an unequaled happiness


PH

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Re: MK2 Nomad/Perspective
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2023, 10:27:11 pm »
20 kg dry is simply to much and sometimes i hate it for that.
Ok, we've done this before, more than once   ;)
Why does your Nomad weigh 20kg?
How much lighter do you think a frameset could be?
The difference between the weight saving possible on a frame and the weight you think you can save overall, will be possible with the Nomad.

A titanium frame of the same dimensions and strength will save you about 500g, or up to 1kg if you compromise that.  A lighter steel fork with less rigidity might save you 300g, a carbon one if it suits your use can be a huge saving, maybe 1.2kg.
So same bike with less rigid ti frame and carbon fork, would still be 17.8kg.

jul

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Re: MK2 Nomad/Perspective
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2023, 11:18:00 pm »
19 kg precisely.

I can save some grams with my suspsension seat post, my Surly front rack, that all !

I have to study the bikepacking philosophy, i'll be curious to know their bike weight

Danneaux

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Re: MK2 Nomad/Perspective
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2023, 12:07:24 am »
Julien,

I believe Paul has asked the key question here...
Quote
Why does your Nomad weigh 20kg?
Speaking for myself, my own Nomad Mk2 weighs 20kg because of how I have it outfitted compared to my less heavy-duty, more road-oriented steel-frame tourers, which tend to spot-in at about 14.5kg.

The difference for me is in the component and accessory weight...
Rohloff hub
Wider, longer mudguards
Fatter, more robust tires and tubes (big contributor)
Ryde Andra 30 rims (big contributor compared to, say, Mavic MA-2 on my randonneur bike)
Bottles and cages for carrying 6.5l on the bike
2 Accessory T-bars...and the accessories for them, like my handlebar bag mount
Heavier, more robust racks
Thudbuster LT suspension seatpost
SON dynamo hub and related charging system and full dyno- and battery lighting
GPS and mount
Frame lock and cable or chain (heavy!)
Chainring bash guard
etc, etc, etc.

It all adds up! it is all "worth it" to me as these things make the bike more pleasurable to ride and better suited to purpose as a true expedition touring bike for me...when I need "heavy lifting" capability for hauling 26.5l of water between sources for desert travel and for solo, self-supported touring with the additions of camping kit, food and fuel for 3 weeks at a time.

When I need to carry less or go on tours where I can readily resupply I take one of my lighter, less-robust bikes, as the extra sturdiness and cargo capacity are not needed and would only be a hindrance. For me, it is horses for courses and nothing in my fleet matches my whole Nomad for what it can do. Unfortunately, that comes at a price -- it is heavier as I have it equipped and as needed to do the job. The same bike with fewer accessories and components chosen for lighter duty/less weight might very well weigh about 16kg, about the same as my steel Enduro-Allroad bike with derailleur drivetrain. I agree with Paul; the frame weight is the least of the difference.

My lightest camp-touring setup requires only a Carradice Camper Longflap weighing 6.41kg that allows me to sleep warm, dry and comfortable, dine on hot food, accommodates rain and cold clothing and a change of riding clothes and attaches to even my lightest bike. See...
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=11787.msg85858#msg85858
Agreed, less weight makes for a more pleasurable tour and ride but isn't suited for all rides!

Best, Dan.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2023, 03:11:50 am by Danneaux »

martinf

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Re: MK2 Nomad/Perspective
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2023, 06:31:18 am »
20 kg dry is simply to much and sometimes i hate it for that. I dream of a bicycle with the same geometry of frame than the mk2, same position, same robustness characteristic but with 5 to 8 kg less !

Maybe the titane could do me this favor.

Maybe get another bike for unloaded rides?

I have a heavy-build Raven Tour, probably about 19-20 kg, this is good for touring with lots of luggage (camping, holidays with my wife when I carry most of the stuff) and performs reasonably well on tracks and paths.

For day rides I have a much lighter Raven Sport Tour, it probably weighs about 14 kg. When I use this I manage with just a saddlebag most of the time, although I have a Tubus Vega rack that can be quickly fitted to take two rear panniers if I want to do a lightweight tour on reasonably good roads. Current Thorn equivalent would be a light build Mercury, if you are on a budget and could accept derailleur gears it should be possible to pick up a second-hand touring bike very cheaply and adapt it to your requirements.

jul

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Re: MK2 Nomad/Perspective
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2023, 03:26:44 pm »
Thanks Dan for your pedagogy

@ Martinf, i think you see right, probably i just need a bike for unloaded rides where i can ride without difficulty on the trails.

And i don't think the mercury is made for this (ride on the trails), the best would be to find a bike in 27.5" wheels who accept a large tires, and disc brake. it'll be agile and rolling easy on the road. Typed Bikepacking with straight handlebar

Danneaux

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Re: MK2 Nomad/Perspective
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2023, 05:36:05 pm »
Quote
...the best would be to find a bike in 27.5" wheels who accept a large tires, and disc brake. it'll be agile and rolling easy on the road. Typed Bikepacking with straight handlebar
Hmm. Maybe a "gravel bike" with eyelets/bosses for bikepacking? If so, there's a number of these available for relatively reasonable prices provided you don't need a high-end model and can be content with a 1x or 2x derailleur drivetrain.

If it were me, I'd look for an older, used touring bike that could take 700x38C tires with mudguards (I have several of these) and give it a try to see how it worked before spending a lot of money. My so-called "gravel bike" is at home on reasonable gravel roads and mild off-road using either 700x38 Panaracer Paselas or Strada Challenge Pros and a Thudbuster ST (short-travel) suspension seatpost. While the bike has fittings for rear rack and front lowriders, I usually just run the rear. It is ridiculously easy to make a 3-boss mount on each fork blade by drilling and tapping a 4-5mm strip of aluminum to span the distance between mudguard eyelet and lowrider boss, allowing fitment of "cargo cages" or extra bottles in place of a lowrider. I find this is one of my most versatile bikes and keep a Tubus Tara pre-configured to fit in case I wish to run only small front panniers in addition to my Carradice Camper Longflap. It is a MUCH lighter solution than my Nomad Mk2 (but with nowhere near the cargo capacity, of course). It has been awhile since I looked closely, but it might be an older Thorn Club Tour Mk4 would work for you as it accepted tires up to 700x35. I know the current Mk5 model is really versatile and will accept 650B (40-54mm tires) or 700C (28-40mm tires) wheels/tires. Thorn says...
Quote
With 650b wheels (or 700 x 40c) it makes a superb Gravel Bike. It also makes a excellent bike for off road touring and a fantastically comfortable bike for cyclists at every level of ability, who ride on todays broken roads.
This sounds like what you are looking for, Julien.

Best, Dan.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2023, 05:45:55 pm by Danneaux »

jul

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Re: MK2 Nomad/Perspective
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2023, 12:25:23 am »
Is there an interest for me to have in addition to my Nomad a bike like that ?

https://www.bombtrack.com/complete-bikes/beyond-plus-adv

Simply for the purpose to travel lighter and enjoy more the trails

@Dan, for your information, i don't like the road bikes with drop bar, i prefer bikes who have a touch of MTB but who will be confortable on the asphalt roads

That's why i choose the MK2, outside that it will fulfill my missions. Look, geometry and confort of ride is important for me.

« Last Edit: August 23, 2023, 12:42:41 am by jul »

PH

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Re: MK2 Nomad/Perspective
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2023, 10:24:50 am »
Is there an interest for me to have in addition to my Nomad a bike like that ?

https://www.bombtrack.com/complete-bikes/beyond-plus-adv
It's still not clear what you're intending to do with it?  That Bombtrack looks really nice, it's still a considerable lump though, partly due to those huge tyres.  Kitted out in a similar way, it's not going to be hugely lighter than a Nomad, 1 - 1.5kg would be my guess. Of course you don't have to spec two bikes the same, if they serve different purposes there's little point in doing do.  You could if you wanted lighten the spec on the Nomad, the obvious first step is to remove what you don't need.  Then it's cash for grams for lighter versions of the same components, or lesser components and accept the compromise.  That'll make some difference, but apart from tyres, it will IMO, most of the time, feel the same.
If I were looking for a bike for bombing around on, capable of carrying some lightweight luggage, suitable for mild off road, I'd be aiming for an OTP weight of 11 -12kg and expecting to remain well under 14kg when ready to ride. If you're a lighter rider, a 650B Mercury would just squeeze into that and be very suitable.  If I were not expecting such a bike to be used for long days or extended touring, I'd probably get an aluminium frame and carbon fork, it's a fashionable type of bike, as Dan says there's a good choice, here's an example
https://alpkit.com/products/sonder-camino-al-v3-apex1-flat?variant=31072398737513
« Last Edit: August 23, 2023, 10:30:29 am by PH »

jul

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Re: MK2 Nomad/Perspective
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2023, 05:08:09 pm »
To be realistic, most of the time i'm on the road.

I use my Nomad and it is perfect in my way of travel, because i live with it for many months, without ever really knowing when i'll end my journey.

During the day, it is the busiest and therefore heavy in the evening, after shopping and refilling my water bottles, to hold out until the next morning.

So, if i stay in the same philosophy of travel (mean like a homeless) but i just want to ride lighter. I will always need water at night (4 liters) and food of course.

Are you sre that the Mercury can do the job ?

I don't know anything about this bike ?  I would like to study it

Is there a pdf brochure ?

My first questions are:

What tires size max ?
What weights can it support max ?
Which size frame for me ? (175 cm tall, 81 inseam)

Then the history:

When was it first marketed ?
Have there been any changes ?


Thanks in advance
« Last Edit: August 24, 2023, 05:13:46 pm by jul »

PH

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Re: MK2 Nomad/Perspective
« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2023, 09:52:12 pm »
Are you sre that the Mercury can do the job ?

I don't know anything about this bike ?  I would like to study it
If you stay within the maximum weights I'm sure it could do that, but IMO it wouldn't do it as well as a Nomad.
You're not going to find a bike capable of carrying those sorts of loads, that still has the handling of a lightweight. The closest you;ll get to it is by using a trailer, though that brings about a whole load of other compromises. Even then, although it may feel livelier, you can't argue with the physics, moving a greater load will require more energy.
If you want to lighten up, I'd start with the kit, if you can get that light enough, you can then transport it on a lighter bike. In essence that's what the bikepacking thing is all about.