Author Topic: Carradice questions  (Read 8170 times)

DAntrim

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 95
Re: Carradice questions
« Reply #45 on: May 04, 2016, 01:52:52 PM »
Dan

Bagman QR saddle clamp and a rear rack

This is how I fit my carradice longflap for commuting and touring never had a problem with the setup. The actual bag support had to much 'bounce' when touring, but fine on the daily commute. I'll post a photo of it later when I get home so you can get an idea.

Carlos

Image of camper longflap and bracket...


« Last Edit: May 04, 2016, 06:31:51 PM by DAntrim »

IanW

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 88
Re: Carradice questions
« Reply #46 on: May 04, 2016, 05:01:53 PM »
I have 2 x Bagman QR expedition saddle bag mounts / supports.
I both cases I have abandoned the stainless steel wire frame support loop and I am just using the QR part of the mount (due to both saddles having no saddle bag "eyes")
In one case the additional support is provided by a separate rear rack (and this rear rack often supports a pair or Carradice SuperC rear panniers too)
I the other case I tether a Carradice Low Saddle Long Flap by its lower mount back to the seat-post where the resultant fit only just clears the rear mudguard.
When fully loaded this latter case typically fouls / sags over the rear mudguard which is less than ideal.

Danneaux

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7181
  • reisen statt rasen
Re: Carradice questions
« Reply #47 on: May 04, 2016, 07:29:40 PM »
Hi All!

I have a wonderful update on my ultralight touring scheme: A Forum friend very kindly sent me his older Carradice Camper Longflap. I am over the moon with delight and it feels like Santa paid me an unexpected visit! It is perfectly serviceable and has a lot of "character" which makes it beautiful and it even smells good, as if it has been used for camping. There are some small holes, but I can patch them with no trouble and then re-waterproof. I donated the cost of shipping to a local food bank, where it will be put to good use.

I have taken photos and attached them so you can see how it all looks. Captions tell the tale. Although I plan to use the bag on several of my bikes, the photos show it posed on my late father's bike, as it started to rain before I could photograph it on my Nomad.

Total weight including the bag itself is 6.41kg/14.1lb complete except for food, which is variable. Packed items would be good for camping from late Spring to early Fall in my locale. It holds a complete stove with fuel and cookset, sleeping bag and mattress, tent with fly and footprint, a complete spare set of cycling clothes plus cycling tights and longsleeve fleece-lined jersey for cool weather, tools and full rain gear from head to toe.

Half the rear rack is still available for cargo and the D-rings atop the flap are unused and ready to carry stuff sacks with extra food, fuel, clothing, the solar panel, whatever if needed. Still a bit of room in the center of the bag. Left pocket completely empty, right pocket only half full at best. There is still the option to add my 8.5l Large Ortlieb handlebar bag at the front of the bike so I can carry extra food, fuel, and clothing to extend my range.

The Camper Longflap is now ready for my next pair of 300-400km days. Getting everything in one bag at minimal weight means I can still make a good distance yet ride and sleep warm and dry and eat two hot meals a day for as long as food and fuel reserves last (depending on my location, these may be replenished at stores). This setup is not for everyone -- not even me, for most extended tours well away from resupply -- but should be just the ticket for this unique purpose, when I want to take a long day ride and maybe decide on the fly not to return home that night. It also allows me the option to either camp at the halfway point and sleep and explore the area or put all my effort into forward progress, effectively doubling my range over two days. All this at no real hardship. I can even watch movies or read e-books on my phone or do actual work on it while sipping a hot cup of tea before I go to sleep in my warm down bag atop a soft mattress in my dry, bug-free tent, the Carradice stored in the vestibule awaiting the next day's travels.

So delighted! This is the culmination of a 35 year-long dream to fit an entire cycle-camping setup in one bag for fast-light touring. Once attached, the Carradice Camper Longflap seems to be remarkably stable when secured to the saddle and the bicycle's rear rack. I have tried so many schemes to pack smaller and lighter for special trips, but all required increased time to fit everything just so and delayed early starts at dawn and in the rain. The present setup is almost grab-and-go and loads very quickly; it takes only 4 minutes to stow the pre-stuffed items in the bag and be on the road. In rainy weather, it can be packed while inside the dry tent. It seems a better course for me than recent bikepacking-specific bags.

I am very grateful to each of you for your thoughts and experienced input. I would like to make or buy a quick-release mount so the bag can be removed and then un/packed inside the tent if it is raining so the contents can remain dry. Right now, placing the bag's bottom on the rack is most ideal for stability -- the gap is just right and would be even better if attached either to the saddle rails or to a Bagman QR clamp alone.

The person who so kindly made this gift included a Karrimor Uplift. Mindful of the suggested weight limits on similar devices, I think it is ideal for lesser loads that would put a bit less strain on the saddle's mounting loops. The higher perch would be nice on some of my bikes and allow carrying a load along the rack beneath the bag.

One of my concerns in asking about bag supports is my penchant to ride on rough roads, even with my 700C-wheeled road touring bikes. This causes a lot of vibration and the secondary load cycles -- where the bags contents loft, then crash down -- do increase effective mounting loads. This has been such a concern in the past, I have taken to using cinch straps on my panniers. They do help, and also point out the effect on rack and mount lifespan of load-cycling unconstrained bag contents. Minimizing those impacts makes a real difference over time. I agree: For heavy loads in such a large saddlebag, it would be best to use a conventional bicycle rear rack for support -- or none at all.

One reason I am thinking of the complete Bagman QR Expedition (to match the larger Camper Longflap bag) with support hoop is to implement a future scheme to possibly travel by air without a bike. Air transport has become so expensive it might actually be less expensive to fly with just the packed Camper Longflap and a support in checked luggage for International trips, carrying my pedals and saddle in my handlebar bag as carry-on items while wearing a full suit of cycling clothing including helmet (I've done this before, draws amused comments about whether I know more than others about an impending crash...). Once landed, a bicycle could be borrowed or bought/sold/abandoned for much lower cost than flying with my own. This scheme has worked very well for Igor Kovse:
http://ultralightcycling.blogspot.co.uk/
http://www2.arnes.si/~ikovse/
It is just a thought, but if I purchased the Bagman QR complete with support hoop, the clamp could be used in daily practice while the hoop resided in the closet until needed. I still think the stainless hoop needs additional support, as was implemented briefly in the aluminum-hooped Bagman 2, where support rods were incorporated. Hmm. Perhaps I could make a bracket and braze it on to add some Carradice or Tubus rod supports and prevent undue bouncing.

Thanks again, All. Still looking forward to any additional thoughts on mounts and such.

All the best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2016, 09:43:19 PM by Danneaux »

Donerol

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 225
Re: Carradice questions
« Reply #48 on: May 04, 2016, 08:21:18 PM »
That looks really good! I'm so glad it works for you. We now eagerly await pictures of your forthcoming expeditions!

geocycle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1059
Re: Carradice questions
« Reply #49 on: May 04, 2016, 08:55:11 PM »
That looks a great solution. What a terrific outcome! Thanks for sharing all the thought processes, it really helps others.
 

Danneaux

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7181
  • reisen statt rasen
Re: Carradice questions
« Reply #50 on: May 04, 2016, 09:27:49 PM »
...And my sincerest thanks to all of you!

I am looking forward to posting some photos of the camp all setup on some long ride soonest!  :)

All the best,

Dan.

rualexander

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 828
Re: Carradice questions
« Reply #51 on: May 04, 2016, 09:43:48 PM »
What mattress is that Dan? Looks pretty small.

Danneaux

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7181
  • reisen statt rasen
Re: Carradice questions
« Reply #52 on: May 04, 2016, 11:27:31 PM »
Rual,

The mattress is a Klymit Inertia O'Zone. It is only an air mattress, so employs no insulation of any kind. The idea with the holes is to allow the sleeping bag's insulation to expand and provide some temperature isolation instead of being fully compressed by body weight. I *think* it may work, but have not yet used the thing in cold enough climates to say for sure or to what degree or temperature.

The mattress can be used inside a sleeping bag or outside. I prefer tight-fitting "performance cut" sleeping bags so there is less dead air for me to heat. This means my bags are usually too narrow to accept the pad inside, so I use it beneath. Trying it both ways with different bags revealed no difference in warmth for me due to placement. I think I like it better outside anyway, because the bag contours and snuggles around me and the bag's zipper works more smoothly than when the stiff pad is inside. As you can see, the pad distorts badly when fully inflated, but feels okay underneath when I lay on it.

It has a built-in, attached pillow that can be inflated separately from the pad.

I think usability and efficiency depend on the user's size. It seems to be made to work ideally for people 183cm/6ft tall. I am 180cm/5ft11in and my head just goes in the middle of the pillow's "x-pocket" while my heels drop into the little sockets made for them. My sister is 5ft1in/155cm, and we found it could be made to fit her nicely if the pillow were folded forward onto the pad, effectively shortening it. This also raised the pillow, making it better for side-sleeping. Klymit make an extra-long/wide variation for taller people.

Experience with it was initially mixed. The first one I bought developed a leak on first use. It leaked from the valve, and after I put it in water to check, I found a small piece of black plastic in the bottom of the sink. I think it was a tiny bit of debris that kept the valve from sealing fully. I contacted Klymit and they sent a replacement the next day, paying for the faulty one's return. The new one has not leaked at all, and I find it suitable for side sleeping, though it is most comfortable for sleeping on my back. When it has too little air in it, I find my buttocks can touch the ground, making a cold spot. I can either add air or slide the small square of closed-cell foam I use as a sit-pad under this area as a barrier.

My preferred pad for general touring is a Nemo Tuo Standard, newly discontinued for 2016 and replaced with a less suitable model for my needs. Mine is a foam-filled 3.8cm/1.5in thick pad made in two layers with an airtight membrane between two layers and two separate fill valves. The bottom 1/3 is solid foam and is to be inflated hard to absorb rugosities; the upper 2/3 is cross-cored (no direct path for warm air to the ground) and is inflated soft for comfort. it is just the thing for use on ice-covered hardrock in exposed locations and has worked for me nicely down to -13C/8F. Below that, I take a second one and stack them for temperatures down to ~-20C-4F. Unfortunately for this Carradice go-fast application, the Nemo Standard Tuo weighs in at 1kg and fold-rolls to fit a 6l storage sack, making ti too big to carry with my other things. So far, the Klymit Inertia O'Zone has done well for me in testing down to about 7C/45F. It might go colder, but I have my doubts. I have not yet tested it in colder nighttime temps. You can see both pads in the second photo below.

Klymit's X-Frame is an even more minimalist mattress with larger voids, but I found it less successful for me: It was less comfortable for side sleeping and I had to inflate it *hard* to avoid compressing it, so it felt like I was sleeping on rails.

The Inertia O'Zone does pack small, and I bought it with the Carradice in mind. In its little stuff sack with included patch kit, mine weighs in at 410g/14.4oz and measures an actual 85mm x 180mm. The pad alone, secured by a ladies' nylon-covered hair band, weighs 390g/13.6oz complete. It stores quickly by opening the main and pillow valve, rolling quickly once to get rid of air, then folding in half and then half again for the final roll-to-stow. It is a remarkably durable fabric, especially on the underside (grey color, the top is blue; camp and patterned models weigh more). I bought mine at a special "road show" at a local big-box warehouse store where they encouraged me to try it for 90 days and return it if it doesn't work. The O'Zones are now sold for USD$7 less than I paid through Amazon.

Links:
http://www.amazon.com/Klymit-Inertia-Zone-Lightweight-Camping/dp/B00VIMSJ4S
http://www.klymit.com/inertia-ozone.html
More models by Klymit: https://www.klymit.com/sleeping-pads.html

Time will tell, but as lightweight compact air mattresses go, this one is relatively inexpensive and remarkably comfortable to date. The idea of co-opting the bag's insulation is a clever one, but the jury is still out on its ultimate success until I use it more.

Best,

Dan.

Danneaux

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7181
  • reisen statt rasen
Re: Carradice questions
« Reply #53 on: May 05, 2016, 03:43:34 AM »
I see our own SJS Cycles carries a variation of the Thorn Accessory T-bar intended to mount on the seatpost in two models: With and without a sizing shim"
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/thorn-saddlebag-bracket-1725-mm-extension-222mm-45-deg-prod22924/?geoc=us
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/thorn-accessory-bar-t-shaped-1725-mm-extension-45-deg-no-shim-prod28574/?geoc=us

The bar extends at a 45 angle and the user can insert a 5mm bolt and acorn nut at each end to capture the saddlebag's straps. The buckles remain outside, and presumably can be either unbuckled or perhaps even just slid off past the nuts.

Anyone here used one? It looks to place the top straps in about the same position as the Bagman QR bracket alone, leaving the rest of the bag to sit atop a rear rack or to be secured to the seatpost.

Best,

Dan.

JimK

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1525
    • Interdependent Science
Re: Carradice questions
« Reply #54 on: May 05, 2016, 05:14:30 AM »

geocycle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1059
Re: Carradice questions
« Reply #55 on: May 05, 2016, 02:29:42 PM »
If you don't have saddle bag loops then I can see the sjs extension bar being a very robust way of holding a bag.  The SQR looks similar with the added value of quick release.  IMO the bagman QR is less robust than either of these but better for situations where the bag is removed regularly ie several times a day going into shops etc and where you just want to leave it on a bike without looking too ugly! Horses for courses I suppose.
 

in4

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1197
Re: Carradice questions
« Reply #56 on: May 05, 2016, 02:43:53 PM »
Off at slight tangent but I found a review of the Nemo Mio tent that accompanies the mat mentioned by Dan. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSnb8fwb_OU

John Saxby

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1255
Re: Carradice questions
« Reply #57 on: May 06, 2016, 09:12:24 PM »
Rual, Dan, my experience with the Klymit O-zone:

I tried one last year, as part of my investment in ultra-light and ultra-compact gear.  It's both light and compact, as advertised, and inflates quickly.  I found that, for me, there was just not quite enough air in it, especially when I sleep on my side.  I'm 5'11 and about 185-190 lbs (84 - 87 kgs) depending on the season. Perhaps the O-zone would work better with someone who's a but lighter.

So, I switched to a Thermarest Neo-Air extralite. This is marginally heavier and less compact, but much more comfortable. It's about 40-50% more expensive too, but wotcha gonna do? (shrugs)

Danneaux

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7181
  • reisen statt rasen
Re: Carradice questions
« Reply #58 on: May 06, 2016, 10:17:50 PM »
Quote
...wotcha gonna do? (shrugs)
Go with what you find is comfortable and works for you!  ;)

Kinda hoping the Neo Air Extralite's price comes down after awhile.

All the best,

Dan.

in4

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1197
Re: Carradice questions
« Reply #59 on: May 08, 2016, 03:31:36 PM »
http://www.sjscycles.com/thornpdf/thornmercuryhires.pdf

Page 5 shows 'The Master' + carradice solution.