6+ years without a service. Should I be worried.

[Tayo]

I viewed a Thorn Nomad for sale that has been garaged for 6 years or more. It's in lovely condition but the Rohloff hub hasn't been serviced/lubricated in all that time. I thought this concerning enough in itself but the vendor said he'd be quite happy about riding the bike for a few months as it is before giving it a service as according to him new hubs can sit on the shelf a good while before being sold. I have never owned a Rohloff and maybe I'm being overcautious but to me this doesn't  seem to be a good idea.

When I expressed my concern about the possible state of the hub mechanism the vendor offered to flush and lubricate the hub there and then on condition that I actually buy the bike. He wouldn't do it otherwise. I would like to buy it but didn't go ahead as I thought it best to seek advice beforehand from experienced users on this forum.

Any guidance would be much appreciated. In particular whether it's possible to gauge the state of the internals during the flushing phase and what I should be on the lookout for if it is.

Thanks

[Danneaux]

Hi Tayo!

You ask an interesting question I'm sure will intrigue many. While I have adhered faithfully to the Rohloff oil change schedule, my Bavarian friend determinedly does not. He has worked all his professional life at an oil and petroleum refinery and has four Rohloff hubs in his custody -- one on his Utopia London, another on his Meüsing and another on his new Cheetah e-bike while his wife has one on her own Meüsing.

I believe the hub oil on his oldest, the Meüsing, was last changed before the Serbian tour where we met in 2014 and has not been serviced since. The others got their factory fill and none since. None of the bikes/hubs have accumulated much mileage (well below Rohloff-recommended change intervals) because Life got in the way of touring plans and all have been sitting in closed garages, winter and summer, since.

As it happened, we discussed this just last week and he feels no harm has come to any of his hubs while sitting unused in what amounts to storage. He firmly feels the Rohloff oil will not break down in the absence of condensing humidity or water immersion and he recently took each bike for a spin and reported all shift marvelously as usual. None have developed leaks.

So, there you have it, a data point with an n of 1, but still.... He brought his refinery experience to bear and has invested a large sum in his bikes so if he feels comfortable, perhaps it triangulates the experience of the seller you contacted.

Best, Dan.

[mickeg]

I would not worry too much about it if it was garaged and not used for those years where it was protected from rain, etc.

I would give it a good flush with cleaning oil, perhaps ride it for several km in every gear before draining the cleaning oil.

There are various theories on how much lube oil you need to put in the hub when you do an oil change.  The first oil change you do, I would suggest the full 25ml, as any leakage of the excess would also help extract any contaminants.

[Matt2matt2002]

Humm . He doesn't sound very user friendly
Not fillng the hub unless you promised to buy it?

You'll know better than me, having met him but from your description, I would be asking quite a lot of historical questions.

Let us know how you choose to proceed.
I have short arms and deep pockets in these circumstances
Good luck

Matt

[Tiberius]

I'm fairly new to Rohloffs (eight years) but I've done enough miles to build up a healthy respect for them. I appreciate that someone new to them will be more cautious than me.

I would have had a quick spin around the block and confirmed that all the gears worked and 'shifting' fine. Assuming all was well, I would have let the vendor do the flush and lube and then I would have bought the bike.

[JohnR]

I bought my first Rohloff bike in 2019. It was ex-display with the hub and some of the other parts made in 2014 which suggests that the bike had been sitting unused, with oil in the hub, for several years. It was fine.

I think the key consideration is whether there was an oil change before the bike went into storage so no opportunity for water or other contaminants getting into the oil. I side with the bike's owner that there's no point in changing the oil each year if the bike hasn't moved or has just done the occasional fair weather trip to check that it is OK. If, however, a hub has done a couple of thousand miles in all conditions and then left in storage without an oil change then I would be less keen on buying it.

A quick test would be to drain out some oil and see how it looks. If it's fresh then excellent. If slightly dirty then OK but if it's a mucky soup (a sign of lot significant usage since the last change) then be cautious.

PS: I had been wondering whether to do a change on a hub which has only done 200 miles in the past year. I've realised that this suck-it-and-see approach should resolve that dilemma. It's a bit like the shops discontinuing the "use by" dates on food.

[PH]

There's no such thing as a risk free secondhand purchase, but in my opinion this doesn't increase that significantly.
In this case we could break that risk into two parts, mechanical and financial.
I'd mitigate any of the first by immediately doing an oil change and probably another after a few rides.  The financial risk is between you and the seller, do you think this devalues the bike, is that value now less than the asking price?  Will the seller offer you any kind of warranty against a hub fault developing in the first X months? 
The secondhand hub I bought had been sat in a box for two years, I didn't know if it'd been serviced before removal and sadly the previous owner was no longer around to ask, though having known them I suspect it had been and would otherwise have also been well looked after.  I was happy to pay the same as such hubs had been fetching on eBay.

[mickeg]

I think the suggestion above to take the bike out for a spin and try it in every gear is a good one.

I am less concerned about an owner that does not want to do any work on it before a sale, but that in part is because if I bought something used, I would plan on giving it a thorough going over after I bought to to maintain anything that has been neglected.  Thus, I would be very willing to do the oil change myself.

I recall years ago reading on this forum that Dave (formerly with SJS) commented that if water had contaminated the oil in a Rohloff, it had a distinctive smell.  On the other hand I have never noticed any smell at all from Rohloff oil.  If you are concerned that water may have gotten into the hub, you could take the screw out and see if there is any odor, or perhaps drain a few drops of oil out and try smelling the oil?

[Andre Jute]

Engineers always over-specify service intervals on the short side of reality. German engineers take this practice to a ludicrous extreme. There are less polite ways to put it, to do with covering their sitzplatz. Herr Rohloff, a great German engineer, was an enthusiastic practitioner of that norm.

In my opinion, take the ride around block as already advised, and if there is no audible or tactile problem, and on the assumption that the owner's asking price is reasonable, tell him you'll take the bike if he'll do the service. It saves you a few bucks and, if this is your first Rohloff, you'll see how it is done.

What I mean by audibly and tangibly is that you should be able to feel and/or hear if there is something wrong with the box, even on a ride around the block, or a few blocks. A good box has 13 clicks between the gears and no graunches and isn't excessively stiff. It takes many thousands of miles to run in a Rohloff, so a little stiffness in the change is nothing to worry about -- on the contrary, it is probably a sign that the box was little used, a factor which in most cases will be borne out by the obvious cosmetic condition of the box. Or ask the seller how many thousands of miles on the box. I declared my Rohloff run in at about 8000km or 5000 miles, but several years later it is still getting smoother. (Contrast two Shimano Nexus Premium boxes I wrecked with less than 5000 miles between the two of them to get a relative idea of the mechanical strength of the Rohloff.)

You've already been given expert tips on what the oil coming out of the box should look like. Those tips assume a well-used bike. There is a small danger that on a newish Rohloff there are still bits of metal teeth being knocked off, a natural process, and that they will feel slightly gritty if rubbed between your finger, and that you might mistake this for damage being done when instead it is a sign that you're getting a little-used bargain.

Good luck.

[Tayo]

All grist to the mill.

Many thanks.