Author Topic: Rohloff gear change  (Read 7734 times)

PH

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Re: Rohloff gear change
« Reply #30 on: July 07, 2022, 12:08:05 pm »
So it's the Ex cable box that needs a little grease and not the Ex transfer box (item 5 of https://www.rohloff.de/en/service/handbook/speedhub/maintenance/maintanance-tips.
Yes, that diagram and other instruction and videos are very clear what's meant.
The confusion comes when the statement that greasing the "EX Box" will reduce oil leaking, is interpreted as being the same thing. Quite clearly it isn't, for a start in your linked diagram it would involve the leaked oil flowing upwards!

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Has anyone done maintenance on the transfer box?
When ever I've had an axle plate off I've refreshed the grease as in the fitting video linked above (This is I think the only place where an application of grease might reduce leaking), sometimes it's looked like it needs it more than others. I might consider doing it on a service if I hadn't had the axle plate off for some years.  I have opened a Transfer Box, there was nothing that looked like it would benefit from maintenance, so unless something gives my cause, I won't do so again.
I used to pack the cable box with marine grease, I've stopped doing that and notice no difference, I do apply some around the adjustment screws, though even that is probably more than necessary.

Andre Jute

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Re: Rohloff gear change
« Reply #31 on: July 07, 2022, 06:49:26 pm »
Here is a photo of the cable part of the EXT box packed out with Phil's Waterproof Grease before being refitted.

It is from an article, with several more photos, I published in 2012 at:
http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGRohloffEXTservice.html
and linked on this forum on 1 November 2012 at
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=5049.msg26349#msg26349
Dan published a similar photo showing the EXT box packed out with Phil's waterproof grease on 13 March 2013 at
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=4523.msg36175#msg36175

The other photos in my article at
http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGRohloffEXTservice.html
show the two parts of the EXT box cleaned out before grease packing, the water-repelling effect of filling the hollow so that mating squeezes out grease between the mating surfaces (in this case the Finish Line Teflon I used before I got the Phil Faith), and for those who haven't seen one before the EXT box parts refitted.

For Tiberius -- thanks for the warning --, one photo in the article gives an indication of how thin the Teflon got in probably about 3000km though I'm happy to say none landed on the rims of my bike, which are like large discs braked by Magura's Rim Hydraulics (the EXT box gets wiped twice a year at most, so if any leaked out, I would have known because there is nowhere for it to go except on the rim). The Phil grease lasts much better.


in4

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Re: Rohloff gear change
« Reply #32 on: July 08, 2022, 11:28:31 am »
Is this Phil grease marine grease by another name?

PH

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Re: Rohloff gear change
« Reply #33 on: July 08, 2022, 11:29:37 am »
OK, without writing Andre's next chapter for him, I'm going to point out that when Andre says "I fill the EXT box on my bike once a year" he's not doing what others may consider to be packing the cable box with grease, it's not what I would have understood it to mean, it isn't the same thing as Dan does:
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=4523.msg36175#msg36175

I'm not advising anyone how they should maintain their bike, the correct way is whatever makes you confident, plus usage and circumstances differ.  I am going to bang on (And on and on and on... Ed) about the importance of accuracy when communicating things which others may wish to follow.

Danneaux

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Re: Rohloff gear change
« Reply #34 on: July 08, 2022, 02:20:12 pm »
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Is this Phil grease marine grease by another name?
Only in the most general terms in that it is waterproof and very corrosion resistant.

Phil (Wood, no relation or financial connection despite the surname...just a happy longtime customer despite their eye-popping price increases over the years) Waterproof Grease is a proprietary formula made especially for the company. It offers extreme corrosion resistance, has a very dark green color that can stain light-colored paint over time and a wonderful smell that will tempt you to taste it (don't). It has several unusual characteristics I have come to value over the years: 1) It is stable over a wide range of temperatures and rarely migrates, 2) It tends to stay greasy at the perimeter to make and maintain a good water/dust seal while becoming oily at the bearings for minimal resistance, 3) It turns a much lighter minty green when exposed to water over time, providing a visual cue it needs to be refreshed.

After riding in the corrosive volcanic ash of Washington state's actively erupting Mt St Helens in 1980, it was the only bearing lubricant that provided me 100% protection against corrosion. The other lubes used on my bike at the time served as solvents for the acids in the ash and flash-rusted in a matter of hours, making for a very expensive tour. It is my lube of choice for riding in the alkali dust of America's Great Basin deserts, particularly Black Rock in summertime when the talc-fine dust can blow into whiteout conditions.

Best, Dan.

Andre Jute

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Re: Rohloff gear change
« Reply #35 on: July 08, 2022, 11:06:49 pm »
Is this Phil grease marine grease by another name?

I see Dan has already answered the question. Phil's Waterproof Grease, really amazing stuff, could probably do as an emergency marine grease on a very small boat, if the owner could afford it. Mine was a gift from Anto (lately Jags on this board), facilitated by Dan for export to Ireland, but I know the price in general to be "eye-popping", as Dan says. I have Lapis Lazuli (a blue pigment ground from pricey semi-precious stones in ultra-rare supply) which is cheaper than Phil's! On a real ship? Phil's will cost more than the engines...

But for bicycle use, I don't know of anything to beat Phil's for function, convenience, cleanliness and good niff too -- it's a very fashionable grease; put a dab behind your ear when you run out of Eau Sauvage. Phil's certainly outlasts Teflon and Ceramic lubes which I also tried, for their basic cleanliness. (I hate Park's copper grease with a fervour as filthy stuff.) A tube of Phil's goes a long way because it lasts so long.

JohnR

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Re: Rohloff gear change
« Reply #36 on: July 09, 2022, 10:00:16 am »
Following the advice of the forum sages I bought my tube of the Phil grease a couple of years ago and have applied it both on the inside of the removable part of the ex-box (it will reduce the risk of problems caused by water entering along the cables) and where it connects to the fixed part. I found my tube on ebay from a UK seller but it is hard to find. I wonder if this green grease is similar https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08WTQCSJY but looks can deceive.

PH

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Re: Rohloff gear change
« Reply #37 on: July 09, 2022, 12:22:32 pm »
I'm sticking with marine grease, most people would consider that to be overkill.  Dan's volcanic ash may be a special case, but I can't imagine ever using my bike in harsher conditions, both in terms of wetness or corrosion, than a marine environment.
When using it as a barrier, you can see (And feel) if it's doing the job intended. the colour changing properties of Phil's sounds a useful feature, but my simple maintenance schedule is such that parts get re-greased frequently enough not to need it.

Matt2matt2002

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Re: Rohloff gear change
« Reply #38 on: July 09, 2022, 03:10:34 pm »
I don't have an Ex-box on my Rohloff and feel left out of this topic. :(

My squeak from the EBB area has disappeared now that I am off the Orkney/Shetland Islands and back on the UK mainland .
However, should I use Phil's grease to lube the EBB, if I can locate some?
Up to now I've been using an old Castrol grease tin, 20+ years old but still on the firm side of runny.

Best

Matt, who has stopped squeaking.
Never drink and drive. You may hit a bump  and spill your drink

Danneaux

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Re: Rohloff gear change
« Reply #39 on: July 09, 2022, 04:02:10 pm »
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However, should I use Phil's grease to lube the EBB, if I can locate some?
I did mine and have had no squeaks.

Of course, I have not visited the Orkney/Shetland Islands. :D

However, any good waterproof grease or anti-seize should do in this application.

Best, Dan.

Andre Jute

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Re: Rohloff gear change
« Reply #40 on: July 09, 2022, 04:40:58 pm »
I wonder if this green grease is similar https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08WTQCSJY but looks can deceive.

Not likely that what's in that tin is Phil's proprietary formulation; if it were, the makers would blare it out to the world right there on the lid of the tin all the more quickly to recover the stiff licensing fees for the gennie formula.

Matt2matt2002

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Re: Rohloff gear change
« Reply #41 on: July 09, 2022, 09:39:02 pm »
Thanks folks, and Dan.

I am intrigued by the praise Phil's waterproof grease has received.

A quick UK eBay search revealed nothing this side of the pond. Only USA sellers with high postage ( & possible tax/ damage ) to UK.

However, I am visiting my son in New Jersey USA from 16 August to 6 September and plan to have a tube shipped to his address for my collection.

Is it in line with the ethos/etiquette rules of this group to offer to bring some back for members in UK?

Tube price was approximately 15.00

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125340347215?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=kG0qU5wbRBC&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=6YPO-Z8xRdy&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY


I'd only require cost/UK postage payment.

As always, respect group Admins decision.

Best

Matt
I
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mickeg

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Re: Rohloff gear change
« Reply #42 on: July 09, 2022, 11:22:08 pm »
USA is undergoing some high inflation at this time, do not be surprised if you are suddenly informed that the item you planned to order is suddenly much more costly.  Virtually everything I buy is noticeably more expensive than it used to be.  You do not really know what the cost will be until the order is placed.  And then you do not know if they had it in stock until they ship it.


Danneaux

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Re: Rohloff gear change
« Reply #43 on: July 10, 2022, 02:41:53 am »
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Is it in line with the ethos/etiquette rules of this group to offer to bring some back for members in UK? ...I'd only require cost/UK postage payment. ...As always, respect group Admins decision.
In my view as a member and Admin for the Forum, this is a really grand and generous offer well in line with the positive and helpful community spirit so often displayed here. You're not making any profit, the product is not available locally, and it will ease acquisition and minimize costs for others. What's not to like? :)

Very thoughtful of you to ask first, Matt; thanks.

Best, Dan.

EDIT: By the way, Phil Waterproof grease is most commonly sold in bike shops in 3oz tubes. It is also available in 3oz/85g cartridges to fit (mini) grease guns (Phil make a really nice one at a surprisingly reasonable price) or in a more expensive but ultimately more economical "Mechanic's" 16oz/454g jar. It could be split but alone would last most individuals much longer than they likely have need. It is really intended for bike shops that will use it in greater volumes than the average home consumer. B'sides, it really needs to be repacked for easy application. I've had good luck using large-gauge needleless hypodermic syringes intended for veterinary use. For those wanting a really superb assembly oil, the very syrupy Phil Tenacious Oil is just the ticket. It makes a very poor chain lube in my view because while the formula prevents slinging and is very waterproof, it attracts a lot of dust, dirt, and grit.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2022, 03:00:38 am by Danneaux »