Fork issue

[Matt2matt2002]

Strange orange liquid running out of my Cane fork head.
The colour is a match for my new Salmon brake pads ( squealing gone now, thanks for asking! )

No issues with the fork turning or making a noise.
I didn't think there was anything in the fork ' ring'?

No noise or rubbing noticed.
Perhaps 4 years old after new forks fitted.

Any thoughts folks?

[mickeg]

Could that be a rust and water slurry?

Steerer tubes are not painted and often rust.  But that is a lot of what looks like rust.  I doubt that is from a steerer tube.

If water got into any of the frame tubing, if there is an open hole into the headtube from a top tube or down tube that had water sitting in it, if the bike was tilted far forward, that water could have run into the headtube and out.

When I bought my Nomad Mk II frame, someone (factory?, SJS?) put a piece of tape inside the head tube to prevent water inside the head tube from running into the top tube or down tube.  I noticed the tape because I wanted to put some rust protector into the tubes, thus I had to remove the tape to do that.  And replaced the tape later.

If that is rust from a tube, that is something you want to address.

[martinf]

As Mickeg says, probably rust.

On my Thorn frames, I specified the "Frame Workshop Prep" option proposed by SJS. This includes spraying the insides of the accessible frame tubes and blanking the hole(s) in the head tube with tape.

When I get other frames I do something similar myself, there are several products that are supposed to be good to prevent rust inside frame tubes. I don't know if it is necessary or not, but I renew this frame protection on accessible frame/fork tubes when I do the complete strip-down overhaul for each bike, generally about every five years.

Unlike forks with traditional headsets, the modern Aheadset forks are prone to rust on the outside of the unpainted steerer tube. I grease this area every time I dismantle the forks/headset. According to Thorn this should be done about once a year, along with removal/regreasing of the seat post to prevent seizure, but I generally do these two maintenance jobs less often.

For seat posts (and traditional quill stems) I use a special anti-seize grease, for Aheadset forks I generally use the same NLGI-2 outboard-motor grease that I use for headset, rear hub and bottom-bracket bearings.

[Matt2matt2002]

I ride 15+ miles most days.
This appeared suddenly yesterday.
Wet weather but not extreme.
I think I had noticed some rust around the fork head ring a month or so ago.

Not sure what to do since a strip down is beyond my ability and work space.

Best

Matt

[JohnR]

Not sure what to do since a strip down is beyond my ability and work space.

It should be easier than you assume to get the steerer our for a closer look. It should be a process of (i) take a photo of the current arrange of spacers on the steerer; (ii) removing the cap on the steerer; (iii) remove any spacers above the stem; (iv) slacken the bolts on the stem and remove it (still fixed to handlebars); (v) remove the spacers below the stem. The front wheel and forks should then drop out. Reassembly is the reverse but don't tighten the stem bolts until you've adjusted the top cap bolt to take up the slack in the headset bearings.

There might be a need for specialist help when you've identified the underlying problem but the first task is to discover the source of the brown soup.

[mickeg]

That does not look like the standard issue SJS headset.  If you try to take it apart, make sure you know exactly what order all the headset parts go in and their orientation.

If that is a dynopowered light, disconnect the wires from the light or from the fork & hub before you remove the fork.

Or, take it to a bike shop.

That is enough rust that if that much metal came out of a downtube, I would worry about the frame.

Before I built up my Nomad Mk II, I sprayed this stuff in the tubes to protect the tubes from rust.
https://www.amazon.com/Weigles-Bicycle-Frame-Saver-Inhibitor/dp/B0012GO58Y/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top

I am in USA, where you are there may be other products that are just as good or better that are easier to obtain.  I have heard of people using linseed oil too, but I have not tried that.  If you do use any linseed oil, be aware that discarded oil soaked rags can be a spontaneous combustion hazard, do an internet search for more on that.

I recalled someone commenting on rust in a downtube, it took several searches for me to find this, but this suggests that if you have rust forming in your downtube, you have a problem developing.  That said, this was an S&S bike so this may be different than yours for rust issues.
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=9079

[JohnR]

That does not look like the standard issue SJS headset.

Isn't it this or similar https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/forks/48-offset-a-650b-26-inch-thorn-nomad-mk3-steel-fork-gunmetal-imron/? There's also a sticker on the left side.

I bought a can of this https://www.amazon.co.uk/ACF-50-Motorcycle-Automotive-Metal-Anti-Corrosion/dp/B0761TV16Y to squirt inside the frame after someone here recommended it.

[geocycle]

That looks a bit grim Matt. I’d do what John recommends and drop the fork out to get a better look. It’s easier than it may seem. All the bearings will stay in place. Most likely it is the steerer tube which I’d just clean and grease but that is a lot of rust.

[martinf]

I bought a can of this https://www.amazon.co.uk/ACF-50-Motorcycle-Automotive-Metal-Anti-Corrosion/dp/B0761TV16Y to squirt inside the frame after someone here recommended it.

I also have ACF-50.

Don't know if this is any better or worse than the LPS3 from 30-40 years ago that I used before, but the ACF-50 aerosol is easier to apply than the semi-liquid LPS3.

[martinf]

Not sure what to do since a strip down is beyond my ability and work space.

Stripping down an Aheadset fork is much easier than doing a fork with the old-style quill stem and threaded headset.

I've just stripped down one of the latter, for which I used 3 special tools to:

- remove the lower headset cup,
- fit a replacement fork crown race,
- compress the replacement lower headset cup into place.

The problem was a loose fork crown race, which meant that I didn't need the 4th special tool I usually use to remove that part. On most threaded headsets I also use special thin headset spanners, on this particular one I only needed a large spanner for the upper locknut.

The same job on an Aheadset fork just needs a few Allen keys to remove the cap bolt and stem, plus disconnecting the brake cable and any computer or lighting wires. And it is much quicker as well.

[Danneaux]

I've had pretty good luck with Boeshield T-9 for the following reasons...
https://boeshield.com/why-boeshield-2/

Best,

Dan.

[mickeg]

That does not look like the standard issue SJS headset.

Isn't it this or similar https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/forks/48-offset-a-650b-26-inch-thorn-nomad-mk3-steel-fork-gunmetal-imron/? There's also a sticker on the left side.
...

Headset, not fork.  His headset says Cane Creek.

Mine and I suspect most of us have one of these:
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/headsets/black-fsa-orbit-xl-2-1-18-inch-aheadset/

[mickeg]

My errand bike is a vintage Bridgestone.  A neighbor was selling his house, had a garage sale to get rid of stuff.  And he had a couple bikes out back.  When his kids grew up and moved out, he decided he was tired of picking up after them, left their bikes where they sat.  So, a decade or more later, he is selling the bikes, wants $5 USD for each.  I bought the Bridgestone.  I know it sat outside all that time because there was a 5cm diameter tree growing up through the frame, he had to cut down the tree for me to get the bike.

First photo is when I bought it.

Second photo is after I put a lot of new stuff on it, anything plastic or rubber had to be replaced, even rim tape had to be replaced.  Took me two days to get the bottom bracket out.  There was a lot of rust inside but the frame felt good.  After the frame was well dried out, I gave it a good spray of Frame Saver before re-assembling it.

Third photo.  And then I stored it outside for the next decade, photo is in winter.

The bottom line is that if you catch rusting frames soon enough and good steel was used, a frame will last a long time.

[martinf]

The bottom line is that if you catch rusting frames soon enough and good steel was used, a frame will last a long time.

I think it depends a lot on where the bike was left.

A damp environment with the presence of salt accelerates deterioration, a bike left outside for about a year in the neighbour's garden next to our island flat is already in much worse condition than your Bridgestone was, even the alloy parts have a thick coat of whitish corrosion.

And when I worked on coastal survey contracts, the anodized alloy cranks, chainring and wheel rims on my Brompton were quickly discolored by exposure to salt spray, sand and rain, despite doing frequent maintenance. The steel frame was OK, but I had protected all the accessible insides of the tubes with LPS3 and I regularly repainted any scratches to the paint.

On the other hand, the two Moultons my brother recovered from a wood in a large suburban garden were OK, even the rubber suspension parts and tyres were still serviceable, the only parts beyond saving were the rusted-up chains. The shade probably protected the rubber from UV degradation. According to the owner, the bikes had been left outside for "several years".

 

[PH]

That looks a bit grim Matt. I’d do what John recommends and drop the fork out to get a better look. It’s easier than it may seem. All the bearings will stay in place. Most likely it is the steerer tube which I’d just clean and grease but that is a lot of rust.

I'll third this - Dropping a fork out is no big deal and IMO really ought to be part of the regular maintenance routine, I also live in a small flat and most of my maintenance takes place in the living room (On a sheet of plastic, free from the mattress shop!). Big dollop of waterproof grease around the sealed bearings to stop water ingress seems to work well, though it needs wiping off and replacing from time to time.  I also use ACF-50, even though the newer Thorn frames and forks (Inc the steerer) are ED coated and probably don't need it.
I wouldn't worry too much about any damage done, a little rust mixed with water goes a long way! Also the rust may be coming from the bearing as much as the steerer, any water that got in is likely to have to run through that bearing to get out.  If you decide to DIY, I'd suggest replacing the bearings at the same time, or at least having replacements ready to then judge if they need it, you can always put them by for another time and it'd be a shame to strip it and not do the full job.