Author Topic: Modified ortlieb pannier chain/padlock holders  (Read 247 times)

ourclarioncall

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Modified ortlieb pannier chain/padlock holders
« on: May 01, 2021, 02:37:26 PM »
More of my crazy ideas.

Iím currently considering buying two 14mm pewag chains and multi-t-lock padlocks for part of my bike security strategy

I am thinking big picture and long term as to how I could use these day to day wherever I am in the world , day trips or tours.

My idea is to maybe modify two ortlieb pannier bags so that the chains and padlocks live inside the bags and they can be fed through holes in the bottom of the bags and then I can quickly drop the chain out and feed it round frame and lamppost or what ever

Probably on those small low front panniers you get , as this would work in nicely with thorns recommendations for spreading the weight of your load over the front and back etc.


ourclarioncall

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Re: Modified ortlieb pannier chain/padlock holders
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2021, 02:50:48 PM »
Part of the thinking is to just add some more layers of protection and buy more time . As well as it being a convenient place to store the chains

Also the bags and the racks would bear the load of the chains to minimise weight hanging on the frame or maybe more specifically the weight laying on top of spokes if I choose to go through the wheels . Also weight onto of chain glider but I can maybe avoid that .

On the chain there will be two exposed links and the padlock so I imagine this is where a thief would target their attack instead of cutting through the cover on the chain . The chain is apparently very hard (63 Rockwell ) and smaller square links so a bit more awkward to cut in the field . And maybe potentially dangerous. The padlock may be an easier target depending on which one I get but even a shutter style it seems you could still get access . These links canít be passed through each other.

So I would like to have the exposed links and the padlock hidden inside the bag just to make it more confusing /awkward /time consuming and to steer them away from cutting the padlock which might be the weakest link and make them go for the chain.

The bags could then be closed or zip typed so they are slowed or fettered from getting in

I donít know how much the final weight of both chains and padlocks might be. It depends on if I want the chain length to wrap round one wheel or both wheels. Or just the frame . So could be anywhere from say 5 to 15lbs for each chain and padlock (10 to 30lbs for both) . One chain and padlock in each pannier on the front wheel.

Iím not committed to the idea yet , just exploring , but I like it.

I was also considering buying a big 19mm to 25mm chain like Almax and having it cut down into small length to get weight down . Just a very short length to go round a skinny lamppost and the top tube.

But still pondering it all

martinf

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Re: Modified ortlieb pannier chain/padlock holders
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2021, 07:56:56 PM »
Once it gets to the stage of special chains and padlocks weighing 10 to 30 lbs in order to protect an expensive bike I would seriously consider the Heinz Stucke/Dervla Murphy approach and use a very basic and inexpensive bike instead.

Heinz Stucke did a large proportion of his many hundreds of thousand cycling miles on a fairly basic bike equipped with a 3-speed hub.

IIRC Dervla Murphy used a single speed for her Ireland to India tour, as she considered a 3-speed hub too fragile.

A less basic modern equivalent with decent hill climbing ability added would be the old steel-frame mountain bike with added racks and converted to drop bars, which was my choice before I got a Thorn Raven.
 

Danneaux

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Re: Modified ortlieb pannier chain/padlock holders
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2021, 08:51:50 PM »
Quote
Once it gets to the stage of special chains and padlocks weighing 10 to 30 lbs in order to protect an expensive bike I would seriously consider the Heinz Stucke/Dervla Murphy approach and use a very basic and inexpensive bike instead.
I'll second Martin's observations. I made an ugly but very functionally nice Enduro-Allroad bike from an MTB/commuter-style bike fitted with a Sherpa Mk2 fork and drop handlebars. I bought the former rental fleet bike at a reputable pawn shop in the state capitol for $137. Unlike my town, all the bike serials there are matched against police theft reports and both those who pawn and buyers like me have to show photo ID and all sales are logged. The Sherpa fork I substituted to get the handlebars higher and the trail I wanted was about $125 landed and I swapped in some parts I already had, fitting mudguards, Tubus Cargo Evo and Duo racks, and dyno-powered lighting/charging from my spares bins. 44/32/22 chainrings and 12-36 cassette give me a nice range of gears that don't fear hills.

The frame paint is chipped and scratched everywhere and it has several very shallow dents in the TiG-welded oversized steel tubes but it is structurally sound, correctly aligned and doesn't affect the ride one bit.

Because I have so little in it, I feel more comfortable riding it places where my Nomad is either overkill or at much greater risk of theft. Of course I much prefer the Nomad for expedition rides and the Rohloff's reliability and durability are unmatched especially on longer trips, but the cheapo bike is not bad for its intended purpose. I still lock it and take security precautions and would miss it terribly if stolen, but it would be a lot more "okay" than if I lost the Nomad!
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Quote
...could be anywhere from say 5 to 15lbs for each chain and padlock (10 to 30lbs for both)
At a certain point, security precautions that interfere with the pleasure of a ride or tour become "less worth it". That's a lot of added weight to lug uphill and it is single-purpose, unusable while underway. There is another factor, too: If the bike is too obviously fortified against theft, it can be viewed as a challenge and might be more attractive as a target. If nothing else, it shows the owner thinks it is valuable and so might draw the attention of a thief who would otherwise fail to notice it.

I'm reminded of past discussions here from the Nomad Mk2 era, where the prime color choices were Matte Black or Tonka Yellow. Which was more likely to deter theft? About half of people chose black to blend in unnoticed and for easy touchup as an expedition bike tends to pick up scratches. The Yellow folks cited the cheery color and ease of description and recovery in case of theft. No clear consensus and reasonable arguments were made for each.

In the same vein, to keep costs down and to make my Nomad less theft-attractive, I deliberately chose basic Deore componentry. I've found it weighs nearly the same, works virtually as well as the higher-end Shimano offerings, but tends to have less value in the fenced parts aftermarket.

Best,

Dan.

martinf

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Re: Modified ortlieb pannier chain/padlock holders
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2021, 08:37:05 AM »
I like locks to be easy to use and not too much hassle.

Currently, I regularly use:

- Abus 5950 NR frame locks permanently fixed to 3 of my heavier bikes and the two visitor bikes. 5950 NR is a relatively high-end model.
- an Abus Granit Plus 470/150HB U-lock. Once again a relatively high-end model, but not as heavy and bulky as the most secure U-locks.
- a length of chain with an Abus 20/70 padlock. This one is usually "either/or" with the U-lock above, but if I think the theft risk is important I do occasionally take both.

For convenience, all the above use the same key. I carry one with my set of house keys and have a second key in my tool kit, which goes with me in my "valuables" bag if I leave the bike locked up.

I also have the Abus cable Cobra 10/200 2 metres, which is useful for attaching two bikes together or for securing one bike to a large-diameter object, or threading through as many bits as possible.

Finally; I have a small and light cable lock dating from the 1970ís, this has a different key. Same principle, one with my set of house keys and a copy in my tool kit.

My wife's two large wheel bikes have permanently fixed Abus frame locks, but not with the same keys as mine.

My two lightweight bikes and the three family Bromptons don't have frame locks. In general, I don't leave these locked up for any length of time, but carry the little cable lock for the inevitable short stops. And I try to keep the bike in sight as well. If I use a Brompton, the folded bike usually goes with me (into meetings, medical appointments, etc).

There are exceptions. If I have a long day trip with little luggage and a planned stop where I have to leave a bike outside I will sometimes use a lightweight bike. And sometimes we use the Bromptons for holidays, so need to lock them up for food shopping, etc. In these cases I add the U-lock, Abus cable and/or chain/padlock as I think necessary. 

My little cable lock is also useful for locking pannier bags to the rack or frame, and I use it regularly for this purpose on my touring and utility bikes.

Aleman

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Re: Modified ortlieb pannier chain/padlock holders
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2021, 11:35:26 AM »
I've never used anything more than a Abus Granit D Lock for our tandem when on tour, anything heavier, well lets say I'd accidentally leave it at home ... Of course being a tandem it's easy to have someone watching the bikes for a short shopping stop etc.

My other bikes use a couple of On-Guard Pitbull Mini DT-8008 Shackle Locks, which came with cables and lock the rear wheel, frame and with a little bit of wriggling a crank.

Someone I know who did some tours in North Africa, used to tie his bike to his toe with fishing line overnight

ourclarioncall

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Re: Modified ortlieb pannier chain/padlock holders
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2021, 04:57:46 PM »
I've never used anything more than a Abus Granit D Lock for our tandem when on tour, anything heavier, well lets say I'd accidentally leave it at home ... Of course being a tandem it's easy to have someone watching the bikes for a short shopping stop etc.

My other bikes use a couple of On-Guard Pitbull Mini DT-8008 Shackle Locks, which came with cables and lock the rear wheel, frame and with a little bit of wriggling a crank.

Someone I know who did some tours in North Africa, used to tie his bike to his toe with fishing line overnight

Fishing line to the toe , thatís an interesting one ! Not sure I fancy that when some big bear of a guy picks up the bike and starts running with gusto! Maybe tie it round the jeans or shorts in place of a belt.

JohnR

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Re: Modified ortlieb pannier chain/padlock holders
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2021, 10:24:39 PM »
I'm thinking in terms of a cable to supplement the ring lock already fixed to the bike plus an alarm and/or a tracker.

ourclarioncall

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Re: Modified ortlieb pannier chain/padlock holders
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2021, 11:14:52 PM »
I'm thinking in terms of a cable to supplement the ring lock already fixed to the bike plus an alarm and/or a tracker.

Iím intrigued by trackers but havenít looked at them yet . How do they work?

PH

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Re: Modified ortlieb pannier chain/padlock holders
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2021, 07:52:13 AM »
Had a theft yesterday - Helmet and gloves, taken off the bike while I was shopping.   D lock was looped through the straps of the helmet, they must have cut them to remove, rendering the helmet useless, though it had a two quid blinky zip tied tot he top so maybe that's what they wanted.  Cheap thinsulate gloves were just left in the bar bag.  The helmet was about due a replacement and I doubt I'll miss the gloves, so no big loss, it just illustrates the pointlessness of it.
Talking to someone else last week who'd had their saddle stolen, Pitlock seatpost clamp and security bolts on the saddle clamp, so they sawed through the seatpost.  It was a nice saddle and the bike left in the same place outside a city centre gym for a couple of hours most days. We were talking in a group of six, three had never had anything stolen, one only from a garage break in, the saddle loser had also had a bike stolen (I think from he same spot) over a decade ago and my experience. Draw your own conclusions, but I won't be changing my behaviour.

JohnR

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Re: Modified ortlieb pannier chain/padlock holders
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2021, 08:59:19 AM »
Iím intrigued by trackers but havenít looked at them yet. How do they work?
Here's one example of a tracker https://www.amazon.co.uk/TKSTAR-Tracker-Device-Elderly-Luggage-TK913/dp/B07QDXW9R1 while this one is built into a light https://www.amazon.co.uk/TKSTAR-Tailight-Waterproof-Anti-Theft-GPSLocator-tk906/dp/B01N6LXGYM.

They contain a GPS, a phone chip and a battery. You need to add a working SIM card and you can then send a message to the tracker asking for its position. The challenge is where to put this tracker where the thief won't see it (but fitting it inside the frame won't work because the metal will block the GPS signal). Having an alarm as well as a tracker might means that the thief concentrates on disabling the alarm and doesn't notice a tracker.

This https://www.amazon.co.uk/YBLNTEK-Bicycle-Anti-Theft-Motorcycle-Remote/dp/B08M92NWXH is a simple alarm while this https://www.amazon.co.uk/tag8-Dolphin-Smart-Tracker-Black/dp/B08HM514GJ will ring an alarm on your phone if it moves out of range.