Author Topic: Swept back comfort bars + Rohloff gripshift = ?  (Read 9638 times)

Danneaux

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Re: Swept back comfort bars + Rohloff gripshift = ?
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2021, 07:02:32 AM »
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... why on Earth did they design the twist shifter with cables entering the shifter at 90 degree angle? Why not design them to enter from the side, so that your cables run nicely along the bars without bends and loops (like all other derailleur shifters are made)?
You can fit v-brake cable noodles to direct the cables to the side of the rotary shifter. This strategy works nicely in a variety of applications including on bar-end (adapter) mounting of the Rohoff shifter.  :)

Best,

Dan.

Aleman

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Re: Swept back comfort bars + Rohloff gripshift = ?
« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2021, 08:29:24 AM »
Why on Earth did they design the twist shifter with cables entering the shifter at 90 degree angle? <snip> Herr Rohloff’s logic evades me on this one.
The only "Logical" reason that I can think of is the friction induced through a tight bend in the cable at the shifter, although given they are fine on a Raven Twin (optimal routing ??? ) that may not be the case. As Dan said you could play with V-Brake Noodles to achieve a similar result. That solution probably works because it's not an extreme bend.

JohnR

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Re: Swept back comfort bars + Rohloff gripshift = ?
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2021, 02:59:20 PM »
Seriously though, why on Earth did they design the twist shifter with cables entering the shifter at 90 degree angle? Why not design them to enter from the side, so that your cables run nicely along the bars without bends and loops (like all other derailleur shifters are made)? Herr Rohloff’s logic evades me on this one.
Rohloff originally expected the main market to be MTB users who wanted an alternative to a relatively fragile derailleur system and didn't anticipate users having bars with a high angle of sweep-back.

PH

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Re: Swept back comfort bars + Rohloff gripshift = ?
« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2021, 05:01:39 PM »
Why on Earth did they design the twist shifter with cables entering the shifter at 90 degree angle? <snip> Herr Rohloff’s logic evades me on this one.
The only "Logical" reason that I can think of is the friction induced through a tight bend in the cable at the shifter,
I agree that avoiding unnecessary friction will be the key and I don't think it has to be that tight a bend.  There's no point comparing it to a derailleur shifter as apart from both changing gear there's very little similarity.  The ease of use and maintenance comes from the lack of shifter indexing, which in turn requires more cable pull, which increases what friction will be felt.  There's always the third party options, like the Gebla Rohbox which  adds some element of indexing to the shift box, or the Cinq5 which I like the look of, but not for £300! Did the hydraulic system touted a few years ago ever make it into production?  Or what about electric, is that an aftermarket item yet?
My folder has a bit of a tortuous cable route, plus being stored folded won't help, it's noticeably stiffer than my other hubs, so much so that I swapped wheels  (In the workstand) to compare, all other factors being equal it takes twice the effort to shift.  That's not a big deal, but when I go back to a different bike I'll over shift till I'm used to it...

Andre Jute

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Re: Swept back comfort bars + Rohloff gripshift = ?
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2021, 06:33:54 PM »
Seriously though, why on Earth did they design the twist shifter with cables entering the shifter at 90 degree angle? Why not design them to enter from the side, so that your cables run nicely along the bars without bends and loops (like all other derailleur shifters are made)? Herr Rohloff’s logic evades me on this one.
Rohloff originally expected the main market to be MTB users who wanted an alternative to a relatively fragile derailleur system and didn't anticipate users having bars with a high angle of sweep-back.

Specifically, Bernd Rohloff was a mudracer, whatever they call them in Germany, whose bikes have relatively narrow straight handlebars from which the cables with a slight sideways movement reach a downward sloping top tube and from there has just about a straight run to curl into the gearbox from behind. Besides the relatively straight run, the right-handed exit of the cables offers them some protection between the handbar and the head tube until they reach the top tube. In short, the rotary control exit was designed like that for good engineering reasons -- to a mudplugger; those cables were never intended to have forward extension and exposure as on most other bikes, where cables in luggage space are a nuisance.

I'm sure that if Herr Rohloff envisioned tourers taking up his agricultural gearbox, he would have made it more sophisticated, smoother, lighter (that's the worst possibility!) inevitably more fragile. Let me be the first to say that I view that prospect with horror, and celebrate his lack of marketing vision. I have a bike from the baukast who first took up the Rohloff for touring bikes, Utopia-velo, who're known as the Rolls-Royce of Bikes for many good reasons -- and the Rohloff passes their standard of refinement with very, very little margin to spare, but a huge margin -- multiples!  --over any other box in reliability and longevity. I also celebrate Utopia having the vision and the daring -- they make cross-frame bikes of types that didn't survive WW2, so nobody tells them which drummer they should march to -- to take up the then-unproven Rohloff.


buffet

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Re: Swept back comfort bars + Rohloff gripshift = ?
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2021, 10:15:01 PM »
You can fit v-brake cable noodles to direct the cables to the side of the rotary shifter. This strategy works nicely in a variety of applications including on bar-end (adapter) mounting of the Rohoff shifter.  :)

which v-brake noodles fit more snuggly into the shifter cable stopper, Shimanos?

buffet

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Re: Swept back comfort bars + Rohloff gripshift = ?
« Reply #21 on: June 30, 2021, 04:45:55 PM »
by the way: here is how Pinion updated their shifter to solve the issue I was talking about:


Danneaux

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Re: Swept back comfort bars + Rohloff gripshift = ?
« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2021, 11:54:19 PM »
Quote
...here is how Pinion updated their shifter to solve the issue I was talking about...
<nods> The net effect is essentially the same as using v-brake noodles at the shifter. For some photos showing such a setup, see...
https://www.theblandbicycle.com/bicycles/personal-tourer/
...and...
https://www.mtbr.com/threads/rohloff-cable-housing.803497/#lg=thread-803497&slide=2

Best,

Dan.