Raven with ex box?

[humedavid]

Hi guys,
has anyone ever tried the ex box on the Raven? My main reason is an easy wheel - swap between my recumbent and the Raven. I've read that in this case the shifting box would go upside down on the Raven which is not ideal as it can fill up with water, but this way it's better for the cable routing.
Any advice/photo of such routing is greatly appreciated!
David

[Andre Jute]

I don't know where you read about the EXT klick box filling with water, David, but I think it is an overstated or wrong opinion. If you have the Rohloff EXT box already, open it with the thumbscrew, and inspect the mating surfaces. You're supposed to fill the cavity in which the hex driver and socket meet with grease, and you will naturally also smear grease over the closely mating surfaces, and inspection will persuade you that water ingress is unlikely at any angle. For added security, if the cable entry points upwards or at an incline, you can put some grease inside the screw attachments too but that would be mainly for peace of mind rather than fulfilling any particularly urgent need.

[PH]

It isn't unusual, if you download the Rohloff manual you'll see loads of pictures and diagrams of the gearing set up that way.  If anything it's probably a cleaner place for it, my chainstays usually have more muck on them than the seatstays. IMO it looks a bit ugly, but beauty is in the eye and all that...

[Danneaux]

Any advice/photo of such routing is greatly appreciated!

Pittsures! Pittsures are always good!

You can see one photo of such routing at the hub on the Rohloff site here. This implies Rohloff does not condemn this routing, though I know for sure Thorn and Andy Blance have spoken about avoiding this setup to reduce the chance of water entry:
https://www.rohloff.de/en/service/handbook/handbuch-web/repair/wheel-installation

This gentleman used v-brake noodles to ease the entry for a seatstay EX box installation (first post, link below):
https://forums.mtbr.com/internal-gear-hubs/rohloff-tips-1025563.html

A clear photo showing this routing with a GEBLA RohBox on a custom Ellis attached below. Link to the source here: http://blog.elliscycles.com/2019/03/the-ellis-cycles-wisconsin-winterbike.html?m=1

Best,

Dan.

[humedavid]

Thank you Andre Jute, PH and Danneaux!
I shall proceed then!

[j-ms]

I suspect it might be difficult to combine an ex box and a rear rack on a Raven, depending on the rack you use.  I have a Tubus Evo which, I think, will get in the way of an ex box mounted as shown in the pictures supplied by Dan.

[brummie]

I ran an EX box on my old RST. Ran the cables through the brake boss mounted cable guide ( with cable adjusters removed ) It worked fine, and a Tubus Fly rack could be fitted too without any problem, though I suspect racks of a certain design may have complicated matters...

[humedavid]

I suspect it might be difficult to combine an ex box and a rear rack on a Raven, depending on the rack you use.  I have a Tubus Evo which, I think, will get in the way of an ex box mounted as shown in the pictures supplied by Dan.

Thank you j-ms! I use a standard Thorn rear rack. Haven't looked at the routing yet!

[humedavid]

I ran an EX box on my old RST. Ran the cables through the brake boss mounted cable guide ( with cable adjusters removed ) It worked fine, and a Tubus Fly rack could be fitted too without any problem, though I suspect racks of a certain design may have complicated matters...

I did read somewhere that the old brake boss cable guides can be used! Great stuff! Thank you so much!
I still need to source a few double cable guides for the shifter cables.

[PH]

The water ingress argument for the ex box is the same as for mechanical disc calipers mounted n a similar position - That is the water runs into them down the cable.  the answer in both cases is to simply interrupt it, a few wraps of insulation tape near the end of the outer cable ought to be enough.  I also pack the screws out with marine grease, I'd do so whatever position it was mounted in, but it's probably unnecessary.
Good point from j-ms about racks, though the ex box only sticks out a few mm wider than the dropout.  It might explain why someone I saw fixing a puncture dropped the wheel out before disconnecting, I thought they'd just forgotten, but it might have been lack of space.

[PH]

I ran an EX box on my old RST.

That's an interesting looking build brummie 

[j-ms]

How difficult would it be to change the cable routing and run them under the bottom bracket and along the chain stay.  This is the routing used on my wife's Raven Step Through which has an ex box.  I have no idea what it takes to braze on new cable guides so this is an honestly innocent question.

[Danneaux]

How difficult would it be to change the cable routing and run them under the bottom bracket and along the chain stay....I have no idea what it takes to braze on new cable guides so this is an honestly innocent question.

As a hobbyist framebuilder I've brazed a lot of cable guides (and brake bosses, bottle bosses, rack bosses, pump pegs, etc) onto original and existing frames for myself and others. It isn't difficult. Basic procedure is to remove paint under where the guide will go, flux the tube and fitting, locate the boss or guide with a small fixture if needed so it won't shift, evenly/minimally heat the joint between the two and flow the silver (or brass), then use emery cloth to clean up the charred paint (about 1cm each side, minimum), prime and spot-paint or respray.

If the frame will be resprayed, then it is worthwhile to minimally heat the old, unneeded cable guides so they can be picked off/removed for a neat and tidy appearance. Alternatively, some guides are minimal enough to remove with a few careful strokes of a file, cleaning up with production/emery cloth. I've sometimes removed them with a dynafile (a small portable handheld belt sander with a 13mm/0.5in belt).

As for cost, many framebuilders I know will take on a small project like this for a reasonable fee per braze-on ($5 back in the day but now typically around $25 here in the US) if that's all you need. This pricelist is typical in my experience: http://www.bantambicycles.com/repairs-and-retrofits

On the old 1970 roadracing frame I employed for my Fixie, I decided to remain consistent with the age and ethos of the bike and use clamp-on cable housing guides (which I carved myself from stainless sheet) for my top tube-routed rear brake cable instead of brazing them on. Clamps aren't hard to make and that is another possibility.

Best,

Dan.

[martinf]

How difficult would it be to change the cable routing and run them under the bottom bracket and along the chain stay.  This is the routing used on my wife's Raven Step Through which has an ex box.  I have no idea what it takes to braze on new cable guides so this is an honestly innocent question.

If you don't mind the aesthetics, cable ties will do the job. I use them a lot.

[PH]

How difficult would it be to change the cable routing and run them under the bottom bracket and along the chain stay.

There's a halfway option there as well, along the top tube, down the seat tube and along the chainstay, an S shape.
This is effectively the cable run on my Airnimal folder, though the top tube is lower.  It works fine as long as the curves are gentle, sometimes after folding I have to pull the cables into shape again.  it would have no practical advantage, though IMO it could be made to look neater.
For attaching cables without braze ons, there's a variety of options including Rohloffs own
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/hub-spares/rohloff-cable-manager-kit-5201/
I've also seen bare inner wires run down the downtube with cable stops at the top and bottom (Not on a Thorn)
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/gear-spares/1-12-problem-solvers-backstop-clamp-on-cnc-twin-slotted-double-down-tube-cable-stop/