arthritis and twist shift

[davefife]

Hi,
I am rebuilding a rohloff bike for a customer who is arthritic in the hands. It currently has a very worn old style shifter and as part of the rebuild and refurbishment am considering whether to stick with the old style or go with the current wave style.
Full length hase at £200 and giles B options are not on the table due to cost.

Looking for (obviously subjective but if not all the better  )views/opinions on comfort and twist action of the two options.
Thanks in advance.
D

[geocycle]

Difficult to judge. I’d have thought the triangular one might be easier? Depending how severe the arthritis I would be considering adding a paddle lever to the shifter to allow changes by pushing or pulling.modding a triangular one might be easier?

[Andre Jute]

Hi,
I am rebuilding a rohloff bike for a customer who is arthritic in the hands. [snip]

Looking for (obviously subjective but if not all the better  )views/opinions on comfort and twist action of the two options.

I don't have a opinion, but I want to quibble about the meaning of "(obviously subjective but if not all the better  )views/opinions". Personally, if I had arthritic hands, which I don't (yet), in the normal course of things I'd give a lower value to objective opinions from guys without arthritis who've just read about whatever marvellous boutique handles there are out there, and put the marvels on my list to investigate. But I would give much more value to subjective opinions of cyclists who've paid out their own money and used what they recommend and know whether it helped or hindered their enjoyment of their bicycle.

Obviously, you want both inputs, objective guidance to whatever solutions are available that you haven't found yet, plus, if you can get it, firsthand subjective experience by an actual cyclist.

This forum's strength (next to the unfailing good manners of the members) is that you can always get informed opinion by someone who has used a component, almost no matter how esoteric, and failing that, knowledge of what's available out there or coming soon in cutting edge components. The first is inevitably subjective, the second an objective report.

As I said, a quibble about the language; I'm sure everybody understands what Dave wants.

[PH]

I don't suffer from arthritis but have used all three versions of the shifter,  I disliked the triangular one, it worked well enough, but my hand never rested well on it between shifts.  The first cylindrical one lacked grip and the current wave design addresses that.   IMO none work any better than the others. it's simply a matter of which is going to be the most comfortable to grip.
Biggest difference to ease of shifting are the cables and in particular their route, I have Rohloffs on a Thorn Mercury and an Airnimal folder, with the same shifter and the same external shift.  The difference was so noticeable I thought it was the hubs, so swapped everything around and it made no difference.  I've improved it slightly with over long cables which loop better, but it's still considerably more effort to shift on the Airnimal than the Merc.
Not particularly relevant to you, but there's also a different feel to the types of shift at the hub end, I've had both the internal and external mechanisms and fond the external needs a lighter touch but at the expense of some feedback, hard to explain, but I don't feel the same click. 

[rafiki]

I do have arthritic thumbs and I find my new wave style shifter easier to use than the previous triangular model.

[martinf]

I think it may depend on the specific symptoms of your client's arthritis.

I have mild arthritis in my thumbs, but nowhere else as yet. And relatively small hands for my size, which are sensitive to vibrations and can be a limiting factor on long rides.

The only gearshift that caused me problems is the classic thumbshifter used on mountain bikes when they started to be popular in the late 70's/early 80's.

The Rohloff and Nexus 8  twist grips I use nowadays are easier to use than the relatively stiff SRAM Spectro 7 I had for a time, but even that didn't cause me any pain.

In non-twist grip shifters I get on all right with Alfine 8 rapidfire, old Sturmey Archer triggers, Brompton shifters, Shimano SIS bar end levers for derailleurs and oddly enough even with an old non-indexed Suntour thumbshifter that has a very light action.

[Danneaux]

 I have De Quervain's tenosynovitis which causes pain at the base of my thumbs. I found an upgrade from the cylindrical shift cover to the wave pattern much easier and less painful to activate when I have a symptom flare -- particularly in conditions such of high humidity or in the rain.

Best,

Dan.

[John Saxby]

I have the (now-not-so-new) wave-pattern shifter, and it has worked well in all conditions. The cylindrical shifter it replaced was OK, but the wave-patterned shifter gives me better grip.

For me, however, the positioning of the shifter has been the critical factor in its comfortable operation, as I've had to deal with some problems in my right hand which have affected my grip on the shifter.  Here's the summary, which I recognize might not apply to your client, Dave:

    > I have the first stages of arthritis in my two index fingers, and in 2014, when I began riding my Raven, I had a prolonged problem with pain in the base of my right thumb.

    > My shifter is located on a Thorn T-bar, just below the right-central portion of my Raven's drop bars.

    >  At first (2014) I aligned the T-bar at right angles to the fore-and-aft axis of the Raven. That meant I gripped the (older-style-round) shifter with my thumb underneath it, and my index and middle fingers on top of it.

    >  That worked well enough until I took a three-week tour in Denmark, Sweden and Germany, which was full of headwinds and/or hills.  I worked the Rohloff's range of gears a lot, and by the end of the tour, the base of my damaged thumb was very sore, so much so that I found shifting gears uncomfortable.

    >  I adjusted the location of the shifter by rotating the T-bar backwards, i.e., away from its right-angle alignment to the bike's axis, by about 30 degrees. In addition to the stress caused by my damaged thumb, I had noticed that my approach to my grip on the shifter was causing stress: I have wider shoulders, wide enough that, to grip the shifter as described above, I had to cock my wrist to the right in order get my thumb beneath it and my first two finger on top.

    > By angling the T-bar and shifter backwards 30° or so, I found I could approach the shifter from a modified "door-knob" perspective:  Now, the butt end of the shifter nestles in the pocket of my palm, and my thumb does not grip it but runs alongside and behind the shifter.  I rotate the shifter with pressure from the fleshy part of my thumb (at the lower part of the shifter) and the slightly-fleshy part of my palm immediately below my index and middle fingers (this rests across the top part of the shifter, with my fingers crossing the numbered scale of the shifter, at at angle.)

    > Since making that adjustment, I've had no discomfort at all from the shifter.  I'd guess that, 90-95% of the time, I change gears as described just above.  Occasionally--usually when the bike is at rest, say at a stop--I change gears by gripping the shifter between my thumb and first two fingers.

    > I had a severe test of the suitability of my repositioned shifter ten days ago:  On a mini-tour of the hilly back country N and W of Ottawa, I damaged a tendon in the back of my right hand, the one controlling my right middle finger. It was very painful for the first 24 hours, so much so that I couldn't grip anything with my middle finger.  I first thought--jeez! how do I get home, if I can't shift gears?  Happily, two things rescued me:  I didn't need to use my index or middle finger to shift gears (see above), and the condition began to improve, and is now not far from normal

Those considerations may not apply to your client's joints, Dave, but from my experience, I'd look closely at the positioning of the shifter, as well as the pattern of the grip.

Good luck,  John

[Andre Jute]

I like your ergonomics, John, and a super-clear description too. I was blessed with the same ergonomics free of extra charge for simply insisting on North Road handlebars which come with the correct angles built in.

Specifically for Dave: North Road bars could be a hint for your client if he currently rides on anything less, i.e. more straight than North Road bars. However, if the chap's old enough to have arthritis, and he rides for instance drop bars, his body posture on his bike is probably set for the rest of his life, and there's no point in causing pain elsewhere by changing to North Road bars.

[John Saxby]

Thanks, Andre, for your kind words and the suggestion of North Road bars.  The latter also twigged "Jones Loop" bars for me.  Not sure how widespread they are across the pond, but they have a following in the U.S., again because of the good ergonomics & the range of hand positions they offer.

[Tangential note about bars:  When I was making my first research ventures into Thornland, in 2013, I noticed the "comfort bars" advertised for tour bikes, esp the Nomad.  At the time, I still had my mid-'50's AJS scrambler, kitted out for the street and fitted with bars from a mid-'50's Matchless G80 street single (a "cooking single", in the argot of the time, never to be confused with the G50 OHC racer).  My G80 bars were fabulously comfortable, and Thorn's comfort bars appeared to match their lines just so. So why do I use drop bars on my Raven, rather than some variant of the Matchless bars?  It's 'cos my Ajay, and the Matchless, used a big torquey single to deal with headwinds, and I had mounted a small windscreen on the Ajay as well.]

Cheers,  J.

[davefife]

Just to conclude this one.  The new wave shifter fitted to a pair of swept back flat bars, with "ergo support your palm grips" seems to be working out for my customer.  Thanks for all the helpful replies and thoughtful contributions.
safe cycling and be assured of my good manners at all times!
Dave