Thanks jags and John,jags I want the XTC as an everyday bike,for going to work on,and getting shopping etc,pulling a trailer to get bags of coal on,I wouldn't fancy using my audax for that,cheers mate,John I've measured her up against my Audax and she is set up more or less the same,saddle is roughly the same.she has been converted to a flat bar and has V brakes fitted and is a lovely red colour,I've put my Genesis Tour de fer up for sale to pay for her and to make room