Carradice vs Ortlieb for new Nomad

[Repeat]

Thanks for all the replies.... I need to study more later and then may come back with some follow up questions.

[Danneaux]

Until a few years ago I used home-made pannier bags (heavy grade PU coated nylon material, aluminium backplate, aluminium U section with custom slots to fit my racks instead of hooks, bungee and steel hooks for the lower fitting).

Martin, my brother! <nods> Yep, I made my own mounting hardware too. Backing plates were tempered aluminum cut from a bakery's discarded bread-cart trays. Hooks were formed from stainless and aluminum and the lower tensioning members were stainless springs covered in clear vinyl aquarium tubing. Sewed 'em up myself.

These are now extremely tatty and not at all water resistant after nearly 40 years and lots of patching, so now only used on survey work or for local shopping trips, where they have the advantage of not being very attractive to thieves.

Mine too! Mine finally got smelly from the rotting urethane coating going bad, but carried a lot for almost as long as yours. Still useful to a degree. Good on ya, Martin!

After working out the time and materials budget for making replacements I decided it was cheaper to buy new bags...

I reached the same conclusion.

I may add external pockets to the rear panniers at some stage.

Probably worth pointing out the Ortlieb accessory pockets can be added to any brand or type of bag and not just panniers but things like day-packs and dry bags also. The options include the 37cmx31cm/14.5inx12in folding mesh pockets, waterproof roll-top pockets in two sizes (the smaller ones are recommended even for rear bike panniers) and bottle cage holders. I have all three.

Once the "dock" is attached to the bag, different accessory pockets can be snapped in place or removed entirely so you can tailor them to a particular tour. They can also be worn on a belt or on a length of webbing with a quick-release buckle that can be used as a belt. The roll-top pockets are nice for forays away from camp when you want waterproof storage for a camera or for toiletries carried to a campsite washroom. A 0.75l water bottle can be carried in an Ortlieb holder this way for hiking.

One handy use for the roll-top pockets is as dry-bag storage *inside* the panniers when you have room. They have a volume of 1.8l each. When you accumulate mementos or buy extra food, 3.6l of space inside the bags can be "magically" freed by clipping the roll-top pockets and their contents outside on their brackets. If you can find a place to install them, the large roll-top waterproof pockets are 3.2l each, 6.4l the pair.

All the best,

Dan.

[Donerol]

I have always used Carradice, i.e. for nearly 40 years.  They are incredibly robust and long-lasting, and easily repaired if necessary - if you can't do it yourself you can send it back to Carradice and they will do it. I like their designs - pockets on the panniers - and particularly like their saddlebags, and never need to worry about packing damp stuff. Supporting home industry is a bonus, too. Over the years I've acquired quite a collection  .

[Pavel]

Pointing out a slowly learned lesson from my experience, I would not worry as much about which bags to get, until I would go over in my mind, in a very detailed way, about how I'm likely to travel. 

There is the image of me - in Nepal, or the SouthWest of the USA, and there is the reality of where I normally trundle along.  Epic, heroic fiction played the major part in choice of bicycle as well as the gear.  A bit of reality mixed equal measure with experience resulted in a lot of re-buying.  Plus there is the personality quirk inside of me, that I tend to like the extremes rather than the sensible middle.  In every adventure, from photography, to canoeing, to cycling, I start out by daydreaming about the one.  The one bicycle, for example, that can do it all.  The one panniers system that I can do everything with and out of.  The perfect tent.  And then slowly I get grumpy about all the compromises and slowly I spend every nickel to change the gear to get narrow purpose gear.  And I seem to never learn my lesson. 

I started out with the awful Fuji touring bike.  That was named "squidward" because at 18KG it was as firm and steely as a squid moving forward.  That bike was going to kill me.  So I went to extremes and got the Hulk bike - the Nomad.

It was the same with Panniers.  So many details to learn about that I never anticipated from the manufacturers spec sheets.  I think everyone starts out with wanting the "best" kit, but if the op is anything remotely like many of us - brace yourself - you will need to play the field a bit (or a lot).  So in that sense, it hardly matters what you choose.  Flip a coin and choose one - it will just be the first of many.  Oh, and it's important to get the significant other on that same page. 

[PH]

Pointing out a slowly learned lesson from my experience,

pavel makes some excellent points in both his posts, though of course different experiences will result in different conclusions and good panniers last so long and are too expensive for too much experimentation.   
For me it's never been as simple as Carradice vs Ortlieb, the big questions are what am I carrying and how shall I carry it, it's only then that I consider the luggage to make it possible.  These days the majority of my touring is done with Ortlieb front rollers on the rear, tent on top of them, stuff I might need in a Carradice saddlebag and a Vaude bar bag, so no product bias here

Luggage by Paul, on Flickr

In the past when I've used four panniers, I've still mixed Carradice and Ortlieb

loaded raven by Paul, on Flickr

One of the questions is what are you going to do with the odds and sods, needed for cycling but not camping?  If you put them in the pannier, then you're committed to carrying that all the time.  I don't need to open my panniers from one campsite to the next and know at any time I can drop them off and still have everything I need for a ride with me.

[Repeat]

Thanks to all for your replies. I particularly like Pavel’s point that it really doesn’t matter as that takes the pressure off. Some additional background information might help.... I’m trying to get my partner ineterested in coming along with me and part of the “sell”is that I will carry all her gear as well as my own. I totally get the dream thing as I’ve been fantasising about escaping on this bike for over a year now. While I have too many commitments to just do that for extended periods right now, in my head that is where I want to get to in the next 10 years. Right now though I will be limited to 2 week trips and long weekends.

[Pavel]

I like that sort of bargain Repeat.  I would still suggest, for your wife's sake that she carry a bit of luggage.  The reason is that when you stop, she can grab whatever she needs, like a change of clothes, or her laptop or phone, which can be organized by her in her own way, so that she's comfortable in using it.  It's also nice to be able to reach for a camera or put on or off sunglasses etc while on the road, without the trouble of you too co-ordinating all the time.

So perhaps a 5 liter bar bag for her sunscreen, glasses hat and gloves and maybe a mid size saddlebag on the seatpost such as a 15 ltr Nelson.  She could have a light jacket, raingear, a lock and some snacks perhaps. That way one eschews the front and rear weight and fuss of the racks but the ride for her should be a lot more comfortable.

Quite honestly, a bike kind of looks better and more fun when set up with a bit of luggage, but such a setup has no real weight penalty that can be felt. The Nelson just for an example, is only 800 grams and is so convenient. Just a thought. 

 My own personal preference is towards larger than necessary luggage.  Living out of and organising a bag that is to be 80 percent full is so much nicer than one that is 99 to 105% stuffed. 

[martinf]

For me it's never been as simple as Carradice vs Ortlieb, the big questions are what am I carrying and how shall I carry it, it's only then that I consider the luggage to make it possible.  These days the majority of my touring is done with Ortlieb front rollers on the rear, tent on top of them, stuff I might need in a Carradice saddlebag and a Vaude bar bag, so no product bias here

In addition to my old home-made front and rear panniers and my "new" Ortleib panniers from 2011 I also have a couple of Carradice cotton-duck saddlebags, now quite old, so a sort of faded grey rather than the original black. Still pretty much waterproof though.

I use one of these saddlebags on day trips when I don't need too much luggage. They usually stay on my lightweight bikes (Raven Sport Tour and 1977 vintage Woodrup derailleur geared light tourer), but can also go on my utility Raven Tour as I have a total of 4 compatible brackets.

I made a PU-nylon saddlebag at roughly the same time as I made my panniers, it was never quite as satisfactory as a Carradice saddlebag but I used it heavily and it is now more or less wrecked.

[j-ms]

part of the “sell”is that I will carry all her gear as well as my own

When we started out two years ago my wife only carried a handlebar bag.  Now she carries all her own gear plus some of the common stuff as well.  It surprising how quickly ones spouse can overcome the fear of extra weight.

To get back to the thread, we're happy Ortlieb users - but we do keep anything damp out of the panniers.  There is a small hole at the bottom of one of my front panniers (not sure how it happened) which I have simply closed with duct tape.  It's holding up so far (and remains waterproof) but I am sure a more permanent fix will be required later.

[mickeg]

Thanks to all for your replies. I particularly like Pavel’s point that it really doesn’t matter as that takes the pressure off. Some additional background information might help.... I’m trying to get my partner ineterested in coming along with me and part of the “sell”is that I will carry all her gear as well as my own. I totally get the dream thing as I’ve been fantasising about escaping on this bike for over a year now. While I have too many commitments to just do that for extended periods right now, in my head that is where I want to get to in the next 10 years. Right now though I will be limited to 2 week trips and long weekends.

Maybe an extra pair of small panniers for her bike would make her feel less guilty if she is carrying some of the load, even if it is a small amount?  Or a large rack top bag or large saddle bag.  Perhaps if she carried her clothing and sleeping stuff while you carry the rest.  I think at a minimum she should carry her own rain gear and any other clothing she might want during the riding portion of the day.

If you are camping, cooking in the campsites, and carrying food and clothing and sleeping gear for two, that could be a heavy load on one bike.  At least you picked the right bike for it, the Nomad is excellent at carrying a heavy load.

[Repeat]

Yes - well the plan is not to carry everything forever for her.... just while she catches the bug. I’m hoping it doesn’t take too long.

[jags]

if she wasn't willing to haul her own gear  leave her home peddling a loaded bike is hard at the best of times  without carrying someone else's gear.
you can tell her i said that  no point in you taking all the flack.

anto.

[PH]

If you're a more able cyclist carrying a partners kit is a great idea, it makes it more likely you'll travel as far/fast for the same relative effort.
I've done it a few times, with someone who'd only ridden more than twenty miles a couple of times, used a trailer and it worked well.

[Pavel]

I absolutely think it is a very good way to get someone into the sport and benefits will be had by all. I only wish that I could entice my wife to come along with such an offer.  I'd happily haul whatever for however long.  And the daydreaming sky's the limit.  Just think having to, one day in the future ask her "don't you have enough bikes already?".  "You know N+1 is a terrible thing, dear.  "Yes, dear.  If you really need it - of course!"   

[Repeat]

Pavel - I think you need to try harder. Or maybe engineer a scenario where there is no other option.

We seem to be getting off the point of the original question..... so to put the cat among the pigeons, having considered all the advice, and particularly Pavels I thnk I am 80% decided on Carradice super C. From what I have read they are more or less as waterproof as the Ortlieb. Anything like sleeping bag or clothes I needed to be sure of keeping dry I would be storing in dry sacks anyway and the breathaility and repairability is a plus for me. Also I think they look nicer. The idea of keeping a team of people working in Lancashire isn’t such a positive as I’m from Yorkshire originally