US import fee

[hendrich]

Does buying a bike from Thorn and having it shipped to the US incur an import fee? If so, does someone know the percentage?
Thanks, Mike

[Danneaux]

When I bought my Sherpa Mk2 in 2011, shipping, customs, and duties together totaled about USD $850. I live in Oregon.

I waited to buy until the exchange rate was favorable. It is also worthwhile to use a credit card that does not levy a transaction fee on international purchases. I saved an additional $35 that way at the time. Still, it cost the better part of USD $1,000 to get the bike landed if you include differences in currency valuations at the time.

Best,

Dan.

[hendrich]

Dan,
Could you share what are the approximate customs and duties fees or percentages? I know the approximate shipping cost from a UK shipper, it is high given we are interested in a tandem, but I do not know what the approximate additional customs and duties fees might be. Yes, the exchange rate is a factor, very favorable right now I think.

Mike

[John Saxby]

Mike, in Frank Revelo's blog about his Nomad-with-cracked-frame, also in the section, I recall from his account of his purchase (2011-ish?) that he paid 11% import duty, because he bought a complete bike. (Parts are duty-free) 

Those numbers are comparable to Canada's, although we face a higher duty (13%) as well as a similar rate of sales tax.

[hendrich]

John,
Thanks for the percentage and the blog. That is quite a lot, and there may also be a state tax percentage. This reminds me of why you purchased a frame only. Perhaps a frame shipped separately from the wheels and other parts could be each declared as bike parts?

[Bill]

Mike, in Frank Revelo's blog about his Nomad-with-cracked-frame, also in the section, I recall from his account of his purchase (2011-ish?) that he paid 11% import duty, because he bought a complete bike. (Parts are duty-free) 

Those numbers are comparable to Canada's, although we face a higher duty (13%) as well as a similar rate of sales tax.

I keep hearing that the 13% duty might be reduced or eliminated, but not so. Who makes bikes in Canada anymore except for custom frame builders?

I recently imported a bike from the US, the frame was from Taiwan, the parts from all over, but it was assembled in the US, I got it through without duty. What happens when NAFTA  disappears? We're going to have to pay duty on bikes from the US again.

[John Saxby]

Mike, I'd guess that you could get the components sent separately, and save duty that way. You'd have to check the US customs tariffs. In Canada, for e.g., the frameset had a duty of 5%, but the Rohloff and the SON 28 hubs, 0%

On my Raven the wheels were the most expensive components, and I'm guessing that would be the same for your tandem.

SJSC would prefer to assemble the bike & send it to you, I'm sure, but they might understand the cost saving for you--hence a sale for them--if they were to send you a knocked-down version, to be assembled in the States. Dunno what that status might mean for your warranty?

Who makes bikes in Canada anymore except for custom frame builders?

Bill, there's deVinci, Cervélo and Marinoni in Montréal, as well as smaller not-really-custom shops like Bertrand and Eclipse across the river in Gatineau and Tall Tree Cycles here in Ottawa. I'd guess that all of those get their frames from Taiwan, though.

Dunno what might happen with the NAFTA circus -- maybe we'll get cheaper bikes & parts from Germany if the CETA is finally approved? I'd be OK with that, rather than, say, cheaper & more plentiful French cheeses.

[mickeg]

I bought my Nomad Mk II frame and fork in late winter or early spring 2013.  When the mail carrier (US Postal Service) brought the box, he wanted a check for a bit over 6 percent of the value.  That surprised me because I thought that the duty to USA was 4 percent on bike parts from Europe.  But I did not argue about 2 percent difference, instead I grumbled for a few minutes until I got the box open.  That check was only for customs fees, the shipping cost was paid to SJS.

Yes, there is a difference between customs fees for parts or a complete bike, complete bike is more.  My frame and fork box included a lot of other parts including tires and rims, if that makes any difference.

I have bought a lot of other stuff from Europe (UK, Germany and France) but the frame and fork was the only one that I had to pay duty on.  I was pleasantly surprised that I did not have to pay duty on my Rohloff, I expected to pay for that too.  I think my Ortliebs and one of my Tubus racks was also from the UK, no duty paid on those. 

I assume you are aware that you do not pay VAT on shipments to USA.

I built up my own bike from frame and fork, not a complete bike.  But I worked in a bike shop years ago and I prefer to do it that way.

[Bill]

John
I looked up CETA and it provisionally came into effect on September 21. The category that includes bicycles will have tariffs reduced to 0%, but some items are staged and may take up to 4 years for the tariff to be reduced. Bicycles from Germany should be able to be imported duty free at some point in the future, if not now. The UK are still bound by EU rules, until they leave, so it should apply there as well. The vast majority of frames are made in Taiwan, including thorn, so I don't know how they treat that. I guess that is what makes these kind of agreements so complicated.

[JimK]

yeah I paid 11% import duty to bring my Thorn into the USA. I recall getting a phone call when the bike arrived in the USA, and then a bill a few weeks after I received the bike.

[Mike Ayling]

Does buying a bike from Thorn and having it shipped to the US incur an import fee? If so, does someone know the percentage?
Thanks, Mike

I don't know about the import charges but remember that if the bike is being delivered outside the EU you do not pay the 20% VAT which is included in Thorn's list price, so your cost is 10/12 but this does not apply to the freight.

FWIW In Australia we pay 10% GST on the cost of the item imported so it was 20% off and 10% on for us.

Have you looked at the US customs dept web site?

Mike

[hendrich]

Mike,
Yes, I have searched US customs, not much there except ..."Teen Smuggling Marijuana in Bike Tires Stopped"

Fortunately, we can now just plan a bike tour to Colorado and load up our bike tires with reefer in Colorado without having to import. My wife and I should probably use our single bikes since we could get more into 4 wheels. I wonder if reefer packed wheels is a defense against goathead puctures?

Back on the thread...the charges to US invoke a similar calculation, a reduction for VAT and then an increase for customs. A frame is less, but then there is the hassle of ordering all the other components piecemeal and warranty concerns. I do enjoy working on/assembling bikes, so I might do that.

Thanks to all for the information, this has been helpful. And John, your romp north of Lake Ontario looks great, so many beautiful lakes! We loved the waterfront trail along Ontario, but heading more north when east of Toronto is inviting.

[mickeg]

...l. The vast majority of frames are made in Taiwan, including thorn, so I don't know how they treat that. I guess that is what makes these kind of agreements so complicated.

My Nomad was shipped to me in USA from UK, but was welded in Taiwan before that and then shipped to the UK from Taiwan.  I believe that USA customs only looks at where the most recent shipment came from.

...
Back on the thread...the charges to US invoke a similar calculation, a reduction for VAT and then an increase for customs. A frame is less, but then there is the hassle of ordering all the other components piecemeal and warranty concerns. I do enjoy working on/assembling bikes, so I might do that.
...

You did not say if it would be a Rohloff bike that you order/build. 

Rohloff wheels should be built by someone that has read the Rohloff instructions for wheel builders for cross pattern and how to lace it on the non-drive side flange.  I do not remember where I read that stuff, that was 4.5 years ago that I researched the unique aspects of building a Rohloff wheel before I built my wheels, but I do clearly remember reading it in Rohloff literature.  The problem is that some mechanics have no clue how to build up a Rohloff wheel.

I ordered my rims from SJS and specified that one of the rims be drilled for Rohloff.  When my rims arrived (with the frame) one of the rims had a tag that said Rohloff.

Assuming this is intended for long distance touring, since almost everybody now days carries electronic devices that can be charged with a USB charger, I suggest you get a dynohub up front.  If you decide to order one later, that will cost you a lot more than if you built up the bike with one initially.  I am not going to suggest a make and model of dynohub (I own two different models) or USB charger (I own three of them), each has advantages and disadvantages.

[hendrich]

George(?),
Thank you for the advice. Yes indeed, the bike would be with Rohloff. I was considering that SJS would build the wheels as part of a shipment with many of the other components, and the frame/fork would be a separate shipment. Such an arrangement would result in a much lower cost. They may however balk at such a tedious arrangement.

A dynohub is a matter of high uncertainty that I continue to wrestle with. We tend to shun electronics while on tour and find that an extra battery and charging around camp are sufficient.  However, I see benefits and if we want one, now is the time. Eventually upon retirement, when we have more time to tour in more distant unfamiliar lands, it may be that constant GPS access is desirable and so a more pressing need for power on board.

[John Saxby]

We tend to shun electronics while on tour

I'm with you there, Mike, although I do confess to now using a basic smartphone with a robust battery. I've found that the SON28 dynahub, hooked up to a Sinewave charger and thence to a storage battery, lets me charge one/some/all of these things: Cygolite headlight; camera; tail-light AA batts; or phone batt.  The storage battery usually does the necessary in 2-3 hours, and rarely do I charge more than one of these things at a time.

Often enough, I find myself someplace at night where I can't charge from the mains. I do carry a small cube USB charger which I could hook up to the mains if my storage battery or the charging system on the bike goes kaput.